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 Database Design and Application Architecture
 Best Approach for Appl Development-SQL Server 2005
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Cool_Hand
Starting Member

2 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2008 :  19:22:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I'm looking for some input as to "how to" create a desktop application that will be using SQL Server 2005 with the possibility of becoming a web application later.

So far I have looked at Access 2007 as a candidate to build the appropriate forms and update the SQL Server, however I'm still wondering if there is a better approach considering that this app may likely become a web app, and I should bypass Access 2007 and use some other product, and it doesn't have to be a MS product, and could be Open Source.

The SQL Server 2005 part has been loaded and works fine with the various management tools.

With that said are there any opinions on what other application(s) could be used to build the front-end as rapidly as possible and still have scalability?


Regards,

Cool Hand

nr
SQLTeam MVY

United Kingdom
12543 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2008 :  19:40:56  Show Profile  Visit nr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
All access to database via stored procedures. Stored procedures to access business entities not tables
That way there should be no change to the database if you change client and the the functionality will be defined by the SP calls so should go a long way to ensuring the design of the app is correct.
It will also mean that you can changet he database structure if necessary (eg due to data growth) without having to change the application.

If you follow that it doesn't matter what the client app is - you can also mix technologies without problem.

==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.
DTS can be used in a similar way.
Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy.

Edited by - nr on 04/13/2008 19:41:49
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Cool_Hand
Starting Member

2 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2008 :  21:40:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for responding, but I'm not clear what development tool you are recommending to create the forms that would do the front-end processing using SP.

I have used SP for back-end processing.


Regards,

Cool Hand
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rmiao
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

USA
7266 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2008 :  21:58:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Take look at asp.net.
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SweetoSyed
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2008 :  09:36:40  Show Profile  Visit SweetoSyed's Homepage  Send SweetoSyed a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Visual Studio .NET 2005 can be used for creating front end forms. That can give scalability for converting the Desktop application into a Web Based one...
thanks
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m_k_s@hotmail.com
Insecure what ??

38 Posts

Posted - 04/28/2008 :  21:57:06  Show Profile  Visit m_k_s@hotmail.com's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure how to put this politely, but the choice of tools is the least of your problems...

The tools do not determine the quality/usefulness of the system. Great applications can be developed using VS.NET/SQL Server, LAMP, J2EE/Oracle, or even notepad and a file system... Horrible applications can be developed using the same list above. What matters is the skills and knowledge of the architect/developer.

The nature of your question hints that you are new to this arena and you should either spend some time learning how to do things or find a consultant willing to train/assist you.

To paraphrase your question - you are asking, should I use Word, Word Perfect, Google Docs, WordPad, or NotePad to write a best selling novel. To paraphrase my answer - you gotta learn how to write a great novel, then you can worry about what tool to write it in...
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Van
Constraint Violating Yak Guru

458 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2008 :  17:15:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by m_k_s@hotmail.com

I'm not sure how to put this politely, but the choice of tools is the least of your problems...

The tools do not determine the quality/usefulness of the system. Great applications can be developed using VS.NET/SQL Server, LAMP, J2EE/Oracle, or even notepad and a file system... Horrible applications can be developed using the same list above. What matters is the skills and knowledge of the architect/developer.

The nature of your question hints that you are new to this arena and you should either spend some time learning how to do things or find a consultant willing to train/assist you.

To paraphrase your question - you are asking, should I use Word, Word Perfect, Google Docs, WordPad, or NotePad to write a best selling novel. To paraphrase my answer - you gotta learn how to write a great novel, then you can worry about what tool to write it in...



Hey look, Captain Obvious is back...
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2008 :  18:17:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Van

quote:
Originally posted by m_k_s@hotmail.com

I'm not sure how to put this politely, but the choice of tools is the least of your problems...

The tools do not determine the quality/usefulness of the system. Great applications can be developed using VS.NET/SQL Server, LAMP, J2EE/Oracle, or even notepad and a file system... Horrible applications can be developed using the same list above. What matters is the skills and knowledge of the architect/developer.

The nature of your question hints that you are new to this arena and you should either spend some time learning how to do things or find a consultant willing to train/assist you.

To paraphrase your question - you are asking, should I use Word, Word Perfect, Google Docs, WordPad, or NotePad to write a best selling novel. To paraphrase my answer - you gotta learn how to write a great novel, then you can worry about what tool to write it in...



Hey look, Captain Obvious is back...



I am very concerned about the poor quality of responses to this topic.




CODO ERGO SUM
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m_k_s@hotmail.com
Insecure what ??

38 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2008 :  18:42:40  Show Profile  Visit m_k_s@hotmail.com's Homepage  Reply with Quote
LOL - great forum...

the veterans ignore posts until someone tries to steer someone in the right direction...

then they come out in swarms to write stupid crap.

technical knowledge is one thing, maturity and professionalism are another. there are few veterans of this forum who have both.

hey - since tara and jeff have plugged their eyes/ears on the other two posts i started, maybe we can co-opt this one to keep discussing how mature and intelligent you guys are.

since some of you have your profiles here - you should take note that people do often research your resumes and profiles

I'd make fun of Michael Valentine Jones, but here is his autobiography...

The details of my life are quite inconsequential, but very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving C++ consultant from Belgium with low grade lycanthropy and a penchant for pointer bugs. My mother was a fifteen year old French-Canadian recruiter named Chloe with a specialty in web designers. My father would spam C++ newsgroups, he would drink Jolt, he would post outrageous claims like he invented the compiler. Some times he would accuse database servers of being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical, summers in San Jose, Pong lessons. In the spring we'd make class libraries. When I was insolent I was placed on tech support hold and forced to listen to instrumental versions of “The Gambler”, pretty standard really. At the age of 12 I received my first PDA. At the age of fourteen, a online avatar named Vilma ritualistically trashed my blog. There really is nothing like a trashed blog, it's breathtaking, I suggest you try it.

how could i possibly mock you more than your self-description... i dare say, it'd be like clubbing a baby seal...

Not that MVJ wouldn't disqualify himself from most jobs by being a weirdo, but the IT world is not so large - i'm sure most of you veterans have steady dead-end jobs <edited out>, but it's not particularly bright to be obnoxious and post your identity...


Edited by - tkizer on 04/30/2008 18:50:52
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2008 :  20:45:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry for making fun of your sadly off-point reply. I guess from the tone of your pathetic attempt at a personal attack that it really got under your skin. You need to lighten up.


"…but the choice of tools is the least of your problems..."

You have absolutely no way of knowing this; maybe the choice of tools is his greatest problem. Weren't you the one who was criticizing people yesterday for making unfounded assumptions without knowing the whole story? In any case, it is a problem where a bad choice now can cause big problems down the road, so whether it is his biggest or smallest problem is immaterial.

I will admit that I was not trying to help the OP with my response, except to steer him away from giving your reply any notice. I think your second response will give him sufficient warning about the quality of your thought process, so my job here is done.





CODO ERGO SUM

Edited by - Michael Valentine Jones on 04/30/2008 20:48:33
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RickD
Slow But Sure Yak Herding Master

United Kingdom
3608 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2008 :  06:29:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
m_k_s - I thought you were supposed to be some big hotshot in a consultancy firm, to me it actually sounds like that 'consultancy firm' is behind the bike sheds. If you even tried to be mature, people may actually take you seriously, but with the attitude you show here, I am guessing you are a failed programmer or a college lecturer (same thing really).
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master

Slovenia
11751 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2008 :  08:00:05  Show Profile  Visit spirit1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
HEY! i take offense at that, rick!!
don't belittle the college lecturers!



_______________________________________________
Causing trouble since 1980
blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenp
SSMS Add-in that does a few things: www.ssmstoolspack.com

Edited by - spirit1 on 05/01/2008 08:00:31
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tjbb
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2008 :  08:00:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RickD

m_k_s - I thought you were supposed to be some big hotshot in a consultancy firm, to me it actually sounds like that 'consultancy firm' is behind the bike sheds. If you even tried to be mature, people may actually take you seriously, but with the attitude you show here, I am guessing you are a failed programmer or a college lecturer (same thing really).



notice that the forum regulars post ad hominem with conjecture.

notice that my criticisms are based on what you people have printed in your forum.

lol - when i mentioned the company one of you work for, the personal section of the site was taken down and the comment was edited out. the internet is not as anonymous as you think. careers can be helped or hurt through what you post. some people have been offerred jobs/contracts/consultancies through outstanding work on a forum. some people have had their resumes thrown in the trash. i'm not too petty - i wouldn't (or have my clients who often ask me to review) throw out resumes from the hostile posts here, but it would be a negative consideration. - except for mvj who seems very odd. i would forward his resume for the series beauty and the geek - i'm sure he'd be a superstar on that show.

i never claimed to be a hot-shot - why in the world would i have to look up answers if i were? i run a successful consultancy because i treat people in kind; with respect or disdain as so earned (from my bike shed).

you did guess correctly that i have taught - because i enjoy it. i don't teach now, but others from this forum do. so your cut on instructors is a cut on your own people. sounds like someone didn't get great grades...

and finally - it seems that the gurus at sqlteam have tried to ban me... it took me about 20 seconds, but i was able to circumvent them this time... btw - it's not hard to mask your ip or email. the problem is since a registration can come from any ip, you may end up banning legitimate consumers... so, in order to prevent this from happening... i kick myself off your forum... also, your site is not that secure, it would probably take me a bit of effort to logon as one of the admins, but again i leave you in peace to your own devices.

t & j - keep it platonic
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master

Slovenia
11751 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2008 :  08:13:49  Show Profile  Visit spirit1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
welcome back. let's try to keep it without insulting anyone this time.
noone has a problem with you personally, it's just that you've displayed yourself in a negative light.
insulting people isn't cool.

we didn't try to ban you, we just locked your account. of course you're welcomed to use another one (as you did).
i just hope that you can become a productive member of this community. i'm sure that you have a lot of knowledge to offer.

you know: new nick new start.



_______________________________________________
Causing trouble since 1980
blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenp
SSMS Add-in that does a few things: www.ssmstoolspack.com

Edited by - spirit1 on 05/01/2008 08:14:03
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RickD
Slow But Sure Yak Herding Master

United Kingdom
3608 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2008 :  09:03:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spirit1

HEY! i take offense at that, rick!!
don't belittle the college lecturers!





Sorry, was just my personal experience through college, I was always correcting them.

m_k_s or tjbb - I know most here wouldn't take offence at my comments and can take the odd jibe.

Please either be helpful or just keep being offensive, your choice really.
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master

Slovenia
11751 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2008 :  09:05:26  Show Profile  Visit spirit1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
rick i'm joking

_______________________________________________
Causing trouble since 1980
blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenp
SSMS Add-in that does a few things: www.ssmstoolspack.com
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blindman
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

USA
2365 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2008 :  09:09:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
MKS, please go start your own forum. I'm sure it would not be difficult with all the highly paid consultants you employ.
Anybody else see irony in the fact that a guy who talks OVER and OVER how highly paid his consultants are and how high their bill rate is uses a hotmail e-mail address? In his handle, no less...

e4 d5 xd5 Nf6
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2008 :  09:40:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guess we won't have MKS to kick around anymore.


Hope the OP didn't get scared off by all this; he may still be hoping for answers to his questions.




CODO ERGO SUM
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess

USA
37316 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2008 :  12:51:51  Show Profile  Visit tkizer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tjbb


lol - when i mentioned the company one of you work for, the personal section of the site was taken down and the comment was edited out. the internet is not as anonymous as you think. careers can be helped or hurt through what you post. some people have been offerred jobs/contracts/consultancies through outstanding work on a forum. some people have had their resumes thrown in the trash.


I edited your post as I will not tolerate anyone making false claims about my company. Had I not been a moderator, I would have emailed the admins to please edit your post. Considering how you've behaved here, I'm sure that they would have edited it for me in a heartbeat.

My career has been greatly helped by posting here. I would not have as much knowledge as I do without this site. Microsoft awarded the MVP to me because of my blog and posts here.

I'm confident that if I were to send my resume to any local company wanting to hire a senior DBA that my resume would not be thrown in the trash.

But I'm done sticking up for myself. I know my worth as does my company and boss (who definitely knows I post here) and that's what matters.

Tara Kizer
Microsoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Server
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/

Database maintenance routines:
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/archive/2004/07/02/1705.aspx

Edited by - tkizer on 05/01/2008 12:52:22
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