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Van
Constraint Violating Yak Guru

458 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  12:26:08  Show Profile
Hmmm, it's been about 20 min and mks still hasn't responded. That's horrible response time. He must actually have a job and other things to do instead of sitting at his pc and monitoring this site every minute of every day.
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess

USA
37133 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  12:48:24  Show Profile  Visit tkizer's Homepage
I find it very funny that someone is complaining about free support. If you don't think that the free support provided here is sufficient, I'd suggest you either pay a consultant to help you out or open a case with Microsoft as you aren't going to find better and faster support than here.

Tara Kizer
Microsoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Server
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/
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blindman
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

USA
2365 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  12:49:59  Show Profile
Oh, yeah. This forum really sucks.
m_k_s@hotmail.com, you should try dbforums.com. Over there, we are SO much more patient and understanding than Peso. Join up, because dbforums is always looking for fresh meat new members.

e4 d5 xd5 Nf6
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m_k_s@hotmail.com
Insecure what ??

38 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  14:04:49  Show Profile  Visit m_k_s@hotmail.com's Homepage
LOL - if you read the initial post.

I simply asked for what other forums are more active.
I commend community free support, and was simply looking for what other forums were used. And spirit1 kindly answered.

Van - I did mention that I consider myself novice at SQL (who happens to also lead a small practice of fully utilized/employed it consultants). I also pointed out where Peso made a subpar recommendation to someone. You are only as good as the advice you give. I'm sure Peso has made great recommendations as well as not so great ones.

I'd take more of your points to heart if you based them on example instead of making stuff up. Address the fact that there are many unresolved posts.

tkizer - I think you are one who so helpfully answered someone's post about transitioning from SQL 2000 to SQL 2005 with a well thought out - "YES"... I'm sure you've also had many helpful posts, but the responses on the first pages of this forum left much to be desired.

Also, look at the activity on this board (other than this discussion), and you will see that there is not much activity.

So, the intent of this post has been resolved by spirit1.

Now, if we are going to flame eachother - that is something I can be quite good at... But I will bow in deference to the spirit of the forum (which looked to be professional and polite) and hold my tongue.
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master

Slovenia
11751 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  14:08:04  Show Profile  Visit spirit1's Homepage
don't be surprised by even smaller activity on other forums. it is after work hours in most of the world

_______________________________________________
Causing trouble since 1980
blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenp
SSMS Add-in that does a few things: www.ssmstoolspack.com
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  14:10:49  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by spirit1

well the 4 most popular/most visited sql forums are in the descending order are probably:
1. sql server central
2. sql team
3. sql server performance
4. db forums

so you might try your luck there


_______________________________________________
Causing trouble since 1980
blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenp
SSMS Add-in that does a few things: www.ssmstoolspack.com



According to the stats from the first three sites, SQLTeam has a larger number of posts.

SQLTeam
23516 of 36125 Members have made 480965 posts in 34 forums.

SQLServerCentral
602,636 members have posted 393,779 posts within 93,420 topics.

SQLServerPerformance.com
24,495 users have contributed to 35,886 threads and 143,834 posts.




CODO ERGO SUM
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master

Slovenia
11751 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  14:15:10  Show Profile  Visit spirit1's Homepage
no kidding! that's cool!

_______________________________________________
Causing trouble since 1980
blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenp
SSMS Add-in that does a few things: www.ssmstoolspack.com
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess

USA
37133 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  14:18:53  Show Profile  Visit tkizer's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by m_k_s@hotmail.com

Also, look at the activity on this board (other than this discussion), and you will see that there is not much activity.




How do you figure? I've been responding to questions for the past 2 hours. I respond to those questions where I can provide an answer. Any questions that I do not respond to, I either don't have an answer, don't understand the question, or didn't have time to respond.

I'd suggest signing up with a different userid if you plan on continuing to post here as you are now known as someone who complains and therefore people might ignore your threads. There are plenty of other appreciative people here for us to help.

Tara Kizer
Microsoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Server
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  14:38:57  Show Profile
There are eight poeple on SQLTeam with more than 10,000 posts, and only 2 on SQLServerCentral with more than 10,000, including the editor Steve Jones.

Of course, there are a number of people that post in both places. I post some on SQLServerCentral and I know Peso does. I have seen some of the regulars from SQLServerCentral posting here. I prefer the SQLTeam forums, because I think the user interface is easier to use, and faster.




CODO ERGO SUM
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jsmith8858
Dr. Cross Join

USA
7423 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  15:00:50  Show Profile  Visit jsmith8858's Homepage
As you said, "LOL".

quote:

LOL - if you read the initial post.

I simply asked for what other forums are more active.
I commend community free support, and was simply looking for what other forums were used. And spirit1 kindly answered.



Your first post was:

quote:


I'm not impressed with the speed/quality of responses from this forum...

Can anybody recommend a more active forum?



I don't think you "simply asked for what other forums are more active." Do you?

- Jeff
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/JeffS

Edited by - jsmith8858 on 04/29/2008 15:01:10
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SwePeso
Patron Saint of Lost Yaks

Sweden
30265 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  15:01:34  Show Profile  Visit SwePeso's Homepage
Let him go in peace to SqlServerCentral.
Feed him to Sergiy.



E 12°55'05.25"
N 56°04'39.16"
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henrikop
Constraint Violating Yak Guru

Netherlands
280 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  15:10:12  Show Profile  Visit henrikop's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by m_k_s@hotmail.com

I'm not impressed with the speed/quality of responses from this forum...

Can anybody recommend a more active forum?



I dislike to contribute in discussion like this, but I don't think this is flaming, everyone's still "on topic" and there's no harsh language.

mks you are provoking which is fine. But if you were the administrator of a forum and someone would post "Not impressed" and not active and of questionable quality, Imagine how you would react. You easily could have asked the question without expressing your value.

Still I appreciate your time to help others out in some posts you recently made. With your knowledge and experience you can help making this an even better place for (SQL) knowledge.


Henri
~~~~
There's no place like 127.0.0.1

Edited by - henrikop on 04/29/2008 15:11:48
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m_k_s@hotmail.com
Insecure what ??

38 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  15:37:21  Show Profile  Visit m_k_s@hotmail.com's Homepage
Point taken henrikop - I didn't mean to be insulting to the forum... I was typing outloud... I should have framed the question better.

If this were my forum and I was a moderator, I would have viewed the post, judged whether there was any truth to the matter and try to do what I could to make things better.

And then I would have posted exactly what spirit1 and some others did about metrics of the various forums.

quote:
Originally posted by henrikop

quote:
Originally posted by m_k_s@hotmail.com

I'm not impressed with the speed/quality of responses from this forum...

Can anybody recommend a more active forum?



I dislike to contribute in discussion like this, but I don't think this is flaming, everyone's still "on topic" and there's no harsh language.

mks you are provoking which is fine. But if you were the administrator of a forum and someone would post "Not impressed" and not active and of questionable quality, Imagine how you would react. You easily could have asked the question without expressing your value.

Still I appreciate your time to help others out in some posts you recently made. With your knowledge and experience you can help making this an even better place for (SQL) knowledge.


Henri
~~~~
There's no place like 127.0.0.1

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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess

USA
37133 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  15:44:17  Show Profile  Visit tkizer's Homepage
And if I was a poster wanting the answer to your question, I would have googled for SQL forums and checked them out for myself. Why would I rely on biased information from the site that I am complaining about?

Tara Kizer
Microsoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Server
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/
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m_k_s@hotmail.com
Insecure what ??

38 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  16:00:27  Show Profile  Visit m_k_s@hotmail.com's Homepage
because techies tend to be honest about things like that.



quote:
Originally posted by tkizer

And if I was a poster wanting the answer to your question, I would have googled for SQL forums and checked them out for myself. Why would I rely on biased information from the site that I am complaining about?

Tara Kizer
Microsoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Server
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/

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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess

USA
37133 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  16:03:32  Show Profile  Visit tkizer's Homepage
How did you come to that conclusion?

Tara Kizer
Microsoft MVP for Windows Server System - SQL Server
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/tarad/
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Van
Constraint Violating Yak Guru

458 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2008 :  18:05:50  Show Profile
Also, one thing to note is that some of the questions are very common questions. Like asking about upgrading from sql2000 to sql2005 and if it's possible. That has been asked on here probably 1000 times. If the people would take 30 seconds and search the site for posts related to that question rather than ask the same question over and over, then it would save the people who answer the posts more time and they can answer other questions. It's kinda like if you ask me something and I say that I can google it or you can google it...you google it. No one is going to remember every single issue off the top of their head with upgrading to sql2005. Sure, maybe some links could have been provided instead of a simple "Yes" but the OP can google or search this site for those links just as easy.
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RickD
Slow But Sure Yak Herding Master

United Kingdom
3608 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2008 :  02:47:35  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by m_k_s@hotmail.com

Point taken henrikop - I didn't mean to be insulting to the forum... I was typing outloud... I should have framed the question better.

If this were my forum and I was a moderator, I would have viewed the post, judged whether there was any truth to the matter and try to do what I could to make things better.

And then I would have posted exactly what spirit1 and some others did about metrics of the various forums.



I really hope you don't type or speak without thinking in front of your clients.

There are a lot of people on this forum that do not always have the time to expand on an answer (generally due to the fact that they have jobs to do, they come here to try to help others) and most of the posters just want a quick fix as they are usually in a bit of a pickle or it is homework.

If you want something answered and can't be bothered to wait for the answer, phone Microsoft every time you need something, can gaurantee they will take longer to answer and cost you lots of $!

As you have admitted you know little about SQL and do not seem to be able to explain your issue properly, perhaps trying to wind up a bunch of techies (who, if you remember are helping you for FREE), is not exactly your best course of action. Seems to me that the money your spent on your 'hired gun' (such a stupid phase), was well spent as you obviously couldn't seem to explain the problem in words on a screen, but seem to have done so face to face.

As for techies being honest, where did you get that little gem?


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m_k_s@hotmail.com
Insecure what ??

38 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2008 :  07:26:06  Show Profile  Visit m_k_s@hotmail.com's Homepage
Yeah - usually forums aren't so tempermental and defensive about themselves. And no, I don't think a forum mandates the same level of respect as a client.

Perhaps you and Tara work with a different set of techs than I do, but nearly all the people I work with are direct and honest - at least about work stuff. We make fun of eachother, we challenge eachother, we ask eachother for advice. We can take being made fun of and challenged because we are secure in abilities and we respect eachother.

For example, a poster asked about a schema for food service... Tara replied with a "HUNH?" <== literally that was her answer. The poster, not knowing better than to offend the great almighty sql goddess, replied back with a "Experts Only Please"... Tara, then shut down his post... The defensive nature of such actions automatically make me take pause and question the psychology of someone so petty. There is an underlying control/insecurity issue there.

I've never found a forum so insecure and defensive. I'm amazed that certain people are MVP - that title used to command a little respect...

So the excuse that you can provide crappy help because it is free help doesn't work for me. If you don't have time to answer something well, then you shouldn't answer.

As for explaining a nuanced requirement, perhaps it could have been done better, but I think some of the problem was responders actually reading the post and making assumptions instead of asking for clarification.

Instead of looking to blame someone for pointing out possible issues with the forum, perhaps the forum should look within and say - hmmm.. we do get a lot of incomplete questions/requirements... perhaps we could modify the posting input so that posters are forced to at least think about some of the obvious questions that are left unanswered. Oh yeah we also get a lot of repeat questions... perhaps we could copy what a lot of other organizations have already done and guide the poster to input their title first and provide a list of hits first... we could still allow them to enter their post, but at least they would be forced to look at some matches on keywords they've entered...

MySQL actually has a great forum. Why don't we emulate some of their ideas? (btw MySQL sucks now that it is corporate and not community)...

When you moderate a forum, a certain level of expertise is assumed. There are many posters being lead down a bad path from the advice given here... Oh well, I guess that will eventually be more business for my people...



quote:
Originally posted by RickD

quote:
Originally posted by m_k_s@hotmail.com

Point taken henrikop - I didn't mean to be insulting to the forum... I was typing outloud... I should have framed the question better.

If this were my forum and I was a moderator, I would have viewed the post, judged whether there was any truth to the matter and try to do what I could to make things better.

And then I would have posted exactly what spirit1 and some others did about metrics of the various forums.



I really hope you don't type or speak without thinking in front of your clients.

There are a lot of people on this forum that do not always have the time to expand on an answer (generally due to the fact that they have jobs to do, they come here to try to help others) and most of the posters just want a quick fix as they are usually in a bit of a pickle or it is homework.

If you want something answered and can't be bothered to wait for the answer, phone Microsoft every time you need something, can gaurantee they will take longer to answer and cost you lots of $!

As you have admitted you know little about SQL and do not seem to be able to explain your issue properly, perhaps trying to wind up a bunch of techies (who, if you remember are helping you for FREE), is not exactly your best course of action. Seems to me that the money your spent on your 'hired gun' (such a stupid phase), was well spent as you obviously couldn't seem to explain the problem in words on a screen, but seem to have done so face to face.

As for techies being honest, where did you get that little gem?




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SwePeso
Patron Saint of Lost Yaks

Sweden
30265 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2008 :  07:35:53  Show Profile  Visit SwePeso's Homepage
Being a moderator does not require you to be an expert in the field. Surely even you must realize that.
A moderator monitors the jargong used in the topics.

We are lucky here at SQLTeam that the moderators also are very competent in their fields.

As for forcing the posters to follow some guidelines will be hard sinve we get a LOT of questions for Sybase, oracle and others even though it clearly says Microsoft SQL Server forums.

Maybe they turn to us for help because they can't get help anywhere else?
See http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=101929




E 12°55'05.25"
N 56°04'39.16"
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