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 Is SQL a language that can be utilized to write an Application
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AskSQLTeam
Ask SQLTeam Question

USA
0 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2002 :  17:43:31  Show Profile  Visit AskSQLTeam's Homepage  Reply with Quote
C writes "Someone asked me the other day if;
SQL was a language that can be utilized to write an Application? Is SQL considered to be an Application Language? "

byrmol
Shed Building SQL Farmer

Australia
1591 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2002 :  17:54:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
C,

Unfortunately SQL has become implemented as a "Data" language.. (whatever that means..)

There is hope though..(About a 10 year wait...)

There a couple of projects that are working to change this..
"D" (if ever implemented) is intended to be both a "Data" and "Application" Language....



DavidM

Tomorrow is the same day as Today was the day before.
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!

Australia
4970 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2002 :  18:13:31  Show Profile  Visit Merkin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We hear about D. But there is no evidence of anyone actually working to implement it. If there were, we would have seen it by now, the concept is not new at all.

Do a search around the web, all you will find is the standard Sourceforge.net project, that starts, and never releases anything.

D might be a nice idea, but I don't see any signs of it ever coming into reality. At least not until the major database vendors pick it up. At that is not likely to happen as they all have their own ideas and strategies (Java / .NET etc).



Damian
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graz
Chief SQLTeam Crack Dealer

USA
4137 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2002 :  18:15:13  Show Profile  Visit graz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'd describe SQL as both a Data Definition Language (DDL) and a Data Manipulation Language (DML). SQL doesn't have provisions to do much in the way of a user interface.

Unlike byrmol I expect SQL to stay a language specifically for databases.

===============================================
Creating tomorrow's legacy systems today.
One crisis at a time.
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byrmol
Shed Building SQL Farmer

Australia
1591 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2002 :  18:43:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Merkin,

[BITCH]
I wonder what you would have said in the late 70's when Relational Software (Now called Oracle) said it was going to implement a relational database...
[/BITCH]

Graz,
I also expect SQL to stay a "Data" only language..

Oh how I hate mapping SQL data types to VB, C, Java data types.....

DavidM

Tomorrow is the same day as Today was the day before.
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!

Australia
4970 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2002 :  18:53:37  Show Profile  Visit Merkin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

I wonder what you would have said in the late 70's when Relational Software (Now called Oracle) said it was going to implement a relational database...



Don't know, what would you expect someone under 5 to say . What is your point ?

Damian

Edited by - merkin on 01/20/2002 19:07:21
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byrmol
Shed Building SQL Farmer

Australia
1591 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2002 :  21:13:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Don't know, what would you expect someone under 5 to say .



LOL

quote:

What is your point ?



The future always wins........

DavidM

Tomorrow is the same day as Today was the day before.
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!

Australia
4970 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2002 :  21:19:48  Show Profile  Visit Merkin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
OK

But my point was, no one has said they want to implement D. All the major vendors are going off on their own tangents.

For D to happen a few things need to take place.

1. It (the language) needs to be designed. How many more versions of the manifesto until they are happy ? Is this something that is being worked on.

2. Someone needs to do a physical implementation of it.

3. It needs to be taken up by one of the major database vendors.

Unless I am missing something, I can't see any evidence of anyone even starting to think about it. If Oracle, announced tomorrow that they were going to do it, then it would be a different story.

Damian
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robvolk
Most Valuable Yak

USA
15663 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2002 :  23:46:37  Show Profile  Visit robvolk's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hate to pour more fuel on the fire, but a couple of other things to point out:

An application needs some kind of interface for an end user. SQL does not provide this, nor does D (nor will it). Without that interface, SQL's power can't be harnessed; it's like a human brain in a jar, no sight, hearing, etc., and no body through which to express itself.

Not only does an interface need to be there, but for the most part it needs to be easy to use and flexible. This is a lot harder than you think, especially with advanced operating systems like Windows. I recently discovered the NON-joy of installing Windows software without a mouse. Try it someday! In this instance the interface became singularly simple, and singular...I couldn't do ANYTHING with this software without the mouse. Now I don't use that software, in face I uninstalled it right after I plugged the mouse in.

Not only does a human interface need to be there, the ability for other software or hardware to interface with SQL needs to exist as well, since you probably won't be using SQL to create standalone databases that sit in a corner somewhere, untouched. SQL doesn't support any of these interfaces either (networking, distributed transactions, messaging, etc.) and...no surprise here...neither does D. SQL Server does provide the ability to use COM components and does handle it's only network communication, and the newer versions will support any .Net language, but the core of SQL is strictly data-based.

Well, to make a long story even longer what I'm getting at is SQL itself can't support the requirements of a full application. There will still be a need for other languages to provide functions outside of database-related operations.

And speaking of tangents, this should scare you David...

D.Net!

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Nazim
A custom title

United Arab Emirates
1408 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2002 :  23:58:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If Sql Starts providing user interface . Microsoft have to goaway with VB.and if it starts providing Internet Programming .Net will be better off in cans.

Moral of the story is every language is made for specific funcionality and and they are better off improving on it then adding overheads on them and marring their performance

--------------------------------------------------------------
Dont Tell God how big your Problem is , Tell the Problem how Big your God is
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JustinBigelow
SQL Gigolo

USA
1157 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  00:09:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
SQL, VB, and Java be damned! I'm programming in assembly from now on

Justin

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byrmol
Shed Building SQL Farmer

Australia
1591 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  00:37:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rob,

The "Yukon" build will be scary indeed... I think I will be able to make a living by fixing up databases that have stored procs like...

[code]
CREATE PROC upNET
as
--Connect to Internet
dim oI as New Browser("www.porn.com")
dim oPage as Browser.Page
dim oGraphic as Graphic
dim oEmail as Email

--Loop through each page
For Each oPage in oI
--Loop through each Graphic
For Each oGraphic in oPage.Graphics
--Send graphic
OEmail.Send("SPAM.You.com",oPage.Graphic)
Next OGraphic
next oPage

--Oh yeah better do some DB work
Try
Select * from Emails
Catch e as SQLException
Select 'Doh'
Finally
oPage = nothing
oI= nothing
oGraphic = nothing
oEail = nothing
End Try
go

"Geez the Database is slow"


I think they have it the wrong way round!

I would love to see..
Imports System.Data.TSQL

TSQL in Apps, not VB/C# in SQL Server..
It makes more sense to me...

DavidM

Tomorrow is the same day as Today was the day before.
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Nazim
A custom title

United Arab Emirates
1408 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  00:51:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For one thing , It was be Faster and no performance issues .
quote:

SQL, VB, and Java be damned! I'm programming in assembly from now on



David,

couldnt you have opened a better site

quote:

dim oI as New Browser("www.porn.com")
dim oPage as Browser.Page
dim oGraphic as Graphic
dim oEmail as Email


--------------------------------------------------------------
Dont Tell God how big your Problem is , Tell the Problem how Big your God is

Edited by - Nazim on 01/21/2002 00:52:51
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byrmol
Shed Building SQL Farmer

Australia
1591 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  01:05:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nazim,

You mean there is other stuff on the Internet that is not porn (or gambling)?... I don't want to believe that!



DavidM

Tomorrow is the same day as Today was the day before.
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!

Australia
4970 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  01:09:35  Show Profile  Visit Merkin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
David

The Internet is very educational. Why, just yesterday I got an email offering me a University Diploma for only $39.95! What a great offer. I thought you would like it so I gave them your email address too

Damian
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JustinBigelow
SQL Gigolo

USA
1157 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  01:13:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

You mean there is other stuff on the Internet that is not porn (or gambling)?



Don't forget the multi level marketing schemes. "Earn $60,000 dollars for sending just four e-mails!!"

Justin

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byrmol
Shed Building SQL Farmer

Australia
1591 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  01:18:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Why, just yesterday I got an email offering me a University Diploma for only $39.95! What a great offer.



Damn! I paid $59.99 for mine...

quote:

Don't forget the multi level marketing schemes. "Earn $60,000 dollars for sending just four e-mails!!"



Again, the one I received only made me $10,000 in 4 e-mails...

I better use a better search engine than "ripmeoff.com"

DavidM

Tomorrow is the same day as Today was the day before.
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Nazim
A custom title

United Arab Emirates
1408 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  01:23:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
David, Looks you are quite addicted to both.
quote:

You mean there is other stuff on the Internet that is not porn (or gambling)?... I don't want to believe that!



Justin Give my address and send me my share of money too.

quote:

Don't forget the multi level marketing schemes. "Earn $60,000 dollars for sending just four e-mails!!"




On Serious note, can anyone of you suggest me a university where i can get my Masters thru Distance Education. i badly need one.





--------------------------------------------------------------
Dont Tell God how big your Problem is , Tell the Problem how Big your God is

Edited by - Nazim on 01/21/2002 01:25:18
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izaltsman
A custom title

USA
1139 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  08:40:10  Show Profile  Send izaltsman an AOL message  Send izaltsman an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
http://www.online-masters-degrees-programs.org

If trainstation is a place where train stops, what's a workstation?
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Nazim
A custom title

United Arab Emirates
1408 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  23:43:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanx a Bunch Ilya

quote:

http://www.online-masters-degrees-programs.org



--------------------------------------------------------------
Dont Tell God how big your Problem is , Tell the Problem how Big your God is

Edited by - Nazim on 01/21/2002 23:44:04
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nr
SQLTeam MVY

United Kingdom
12543 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2002 :  23:57:52  Show Profile  Visit nr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
http://www.openuniversity.co.uk

==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.
Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy.
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