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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22403 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2010 :  16:29:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry Graz, I can't find how to get tot he T&C's for the Forum to see if this is covered, or not.

Do the T&C's request that Text Speak (abbreviating "You" to "u" and "Are" to "r" etc) is not allowed?

If not, unless you disagree, I think they should be amened to include that requirement.

I have two reasons:

1) Harder for non-native speakers to understand

2) presumably less effective for Google to index the content

Personally I would like a forum where it was easy for regulars to edit content to fix typos etc. so that the text was more easily understood by all / non-Native speakers / Google Spider etc. as per the way with which StackExchange allows editing of posts.

Even if that Editing was possible / more widespread its obviously better if the users do it right in the first place to save MODs etc. the effort

An example: http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=142651

Edited by - Kristen on 04/08/2010 16:30:43

dinakar
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

USA
2507 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2010 :  18:28:15  Show Profile  Visit dinakar's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i agr wid u Krstn bt it wll b hrdr to implmnt

Dinakar Nethi
************************
Life is short. Enjoy it.
************************
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/dinakar/
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DBA in the making
Aged Yak Warrior

638 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2010 :  18:58:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I also agree with Kristen. I can't stand text speak. I might be (marginally) easier for the sender to type, but it make the post so hard to read.

I read in the paper some time ago, that English teachers in high schools were accepting essays written in text speak. It won't be long before knowing how to spell is not longer a requirement at all. The more that's done to stamp out this abomination of the English language, the better, I say.

There are 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that don't.
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madhivanan
Premature Yak Congratulator

India
22755 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2010 :  01:49:01  Show Profile  Send madhivanan a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kristen

Sorry Graz, I can't find how to get tot he T&C's for the Forum to see if this is covered, or not.

Do the T&C's request that Text Speak (abbreviating "You" to "u" and "Are" to "r" etc) is not allowed?

If not, unless you disagree, I think they should be amened to include that requirement.

I have two reasons:

1) Harder for non-native speakers to understand

2) presumably less effective for Google to index the content

Personally I would like a forum where it was easy for regulars to edit content to fix typos etc. so that the text was more easily understood by all / non-Native speakers / Google Spider etc. as per the way with which StackExchange allows editing of posts.

Even if that Editing was possible / more widespread its obviously better if the users do it right in the first place to save MODs etc. the effort

An example: http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=142651


Some people think that this is a chatting service

Some more I have read sometimes back

smth --> Something
y    --> Why
ne   --> and
tks  --> Thanks
c    --> see



Madhivanan

Failing to plan is Planning to fail
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madhivanan
Premature Yak Congratulator

India
22755 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2010 :  03:26:55  Show Profile  Send madhivanan a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Another one

http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=142713

Madhivanan

Failing to plan is Planning to fail
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graz
Chief SQLTeam Crack Dealer

USA
4137 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2010 :  14:35:17  Show Profile  Visit graz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can update the T&C but that won't stop it. It will just give us a reason to edit or delete the thread. Would you prefer those threads be deleted or someone edit them?



=================================================
Creating tomorrow's legacy systems today. One crisis at a time.
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22403 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  06:23:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the consensus is that Text Speak is not desirable, then (if folk agree) it would help me to be able to say to a new poster "Text Speak not allowed here, see T&C's <LINK>". It doesn't prevent it, but I think people will adhere once asked.

My personal view is that it would be nice to clean up posts where the user's English is ropey - I know that my spelling gets no awards in that regard. Expecting regulars/MODs to do that is a bit much, but of course if they have the Edit capability and they have time / inclination then they can make changes. I think it makes for a nicer resource if people arriving from Google find tidy-looking posts rather than just "any old format/junk".

But maybe I'm just being pedantic & old fashioned?
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harsh_athalye
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

India
5520 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  06:36:35  Show Profile  Visit harsh_athalye's Homepage  Click to see harsh_athalye's MSN Messenger address  Send harsh_athalye a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
*Twitter effect*

Frankly, I don't find it difficult to read text speak, but it might not be very googlebot-friendly. But still, there are very few posters who post in text speak here. I don't think it makes a big impact on google ranking.

Posting a link as Kristen suggested is the only way we can make people aware about their mistake.

Harsh Athalye
http://www.letsgeek.net/
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webfred
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

Germany
8765 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  07:08:31  Show Profile  Visit webfred's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

But maybe I'm just being pedantic & old fashioned?


Yes you are - but I like it


No, you're never too old to Yak'n'Roll if you're too young to die.
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robvolk
Most Valuable Yak

USA
15665 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  07:19:52  Show Profile  Visit robvolk's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
My personal view is that it would be nice to clean up posts where the user's English is ropey - I know that my spelling gets no awards in that regard. Expecting regulars/MODs to do that is a bit much, but of course if they have the Edit capability and they have time / inclination then they can make changes.
From my personal experience here, I can tell you this gets old really quickly. It's also too easy to make a mistake, and/or inject your own personality, into an edited post and likely lose the gist of it. I feel a better approach(es) would be "I'd love to help, but I can't read your Twitterish. Please restate the question.", or if you can restate the question clearly, do so in your reply, and ask, "Is this what you meant?" More work I agree, but I think it's better than pointing to a link they'll never read and refusing to help.
quote:
I think it makes for a nicer resource if people arriving from Google find tidy-looking posts rather than just "any old format/junk".
I think this is less of an issue if the replies are properly spelled with full words. Google will get people in the door; quality answers, attitude and atmosphere will keep them here.
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22403 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  10:13:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are lots of posts here in the flavour of "Duplicate post", "I can't understand your post" which, I feel, just add to the junk that is stored, potentially given as Google Targets (i.e. good info in the thread, but lots of Wibble to read through to get to it). This is something that StackOverflow / StackExchange seeks to solve - and has been very effective on Stack Overflow, but the Top Ten users of Stack Exchange have pitiful numbers of posts etc., and maybe its Joe Spolsky's fan club that have made Stack Overflow such a good resource.

I use "Nuke Spam" to remove duplicate threads (so they are out of the main-stream of wibble and anyone else using Active Posts page doesn't get bothered by them either); and of course I'm seeking a Utopia that doesn't exist ... but I'm keen to make SQL Team as good a resource as possible.

Similar vein: guiding users asking a question to possible answers (before they are allowed to post the question) might help. How many "How do I format a date" questions can there ever be? as for sure the answer is always "Use your front end application". That's a function that will have to wait for more sophisticated replacement forum-software but, again, something that StackOverflow / StackExchange does rather nicely.

Edited by - Kristen on 04/13/2010 10:15:57
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master

Slovenia
11751 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  11:36:00  Show Profile  Visit spirit1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
any of you folks on twitter? it's a great SQL community there. Especially love picking Paul Randal's brain apart.

___________________________________________________________________________
Causing trouble since 1980
Blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenp
Speed up SSMS development: www.ssmstoolspack.com <- version 1.7 out!
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22403 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  11:38:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Got some suggestions of Twitter names to follow?

I figure it will take you "some time" to "pick Paul Randal's brain apart." 120 characters at a time!
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master

Slovenia
11751 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  12:29:22  Show Profile  Visit spirit1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sure. Me.

Seriously though:
http://sqlserverpedia.com/wiki/Twitter

it's 140 chars at a time


___________________________________________________________________________
Causing trouble since 1980
Blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenp
Speed up SSMS development: www.ssmstoolspack.com <- version 1.7 out!

Edited by - spirit1 on 04/13/2010 12:29:51
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22403 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  14:10:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah well I can't FOLLOW you if you don't tell me your Twitter name, eh?

... and another thing ... your link (most helpful, thanks for that) has HUNDREDS of Twitter accounts listed. How on earth do people cope with that sort of flow-volume? For me it would be a non-starter; I need a signal-to-noise ration that delivers benefit ...

Forum / SQL Team probably better? I can scan Subjects for things that might be of interest ... (if someone chooses to put "Help me with this" and it becomes the most interesting thread in Christendom then I'll miss out, for sure ...)
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  16:11:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I usually ignore the "text speak" posts.

Most of the time I'm not that motivated to help people anyway and when they make it harder, I find it very easy to move on.

When they post about half the information that is really needed, don't really explain what they are after, have the word URGENT in the title, post 500 lines of unformatted code, or any of the other common irritations, I usually just move on.

Since that covers about 90% of the posts and the most of the rest are answered by Tara, Peter, visakh, madhivanan, or khtan before I read them, it cuts my answers way down.






CODO ERGO SUM
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master

Slovenia
11751 Posts

Posted - 04/13/2010 :  17:20:17  Show Profile  Visit spirit1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kristen

Yeah well I can't FOLLOW you if you don't tell me your Twitter name, eh?

... and another thing ... your link (most helpful, thanks for that) has HUNDREDS of Twitter accounts listed. How on earth do people cope with that sort of flow-volume? For me it would be a non-starter; I need a signal-to-noise ration that delivers benefit ...

Forum / SQL Team probably better? I can scan Subjects for things that might be of interest ... (if someone chooses to put "Help me with this" and it becomes the most interesting thread in Christendom then I'll miss out, for sure ...)



for thitter you need to use a client like Tweetdeck http://www.tweetdeck.com/

this is me http://twitter.com/MladenPrajdic

well once you join twitter i'll pimp you like i did Peso and those who follow you are worth following back

But to name few: Paul Randall, Kim Trip, Denny Cherry, Brent Ozar, Grant Fritchey, Jorge Segarra, Wes Brown, Louis Davidson, Steve Jones, Adam Machanic, Jamie Thomson, The McCown couple (check out their cool videos at http://midnightdba.itbookworm.com), Jonathan Kehayias, Jeremiah Peschka, Simon Sabin, Tony Rogerson, Buck Woody, Aaron Bertrand, our own Graz and a ton of others i've missed.


___________________________________________________________________________
Causing trouble since 1980
Blog: http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/mladenp
Speed up SSMS development: www.ssmstoolspack.com <- version 1.7 out!

Edited by - spirit1 on 04/13/2010 17:20:47
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22403 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2010 :  03:04:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many names I recognise, but way too many for me to follow - I'd never get anything done!, but I'll take a look at TweetDeck, thanks for that.
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harsh_athalye
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

India
5520 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2010 :  08:12:35  Show Profile  Visit harsh_athalye's Homepage  Click to see harsh_athalye's MSN Messenger address  Send harsh_athalye a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Kristen,

If you find it hard to keep track of tweets on twitter, I suggest you take a look at paper.li. It's a cool tool which turns twitter stream into a newspaper making it easier to read the tweets and categorize them.

Harsh Athalye
http://www.letsgeek.net/

Edited by - harsh_athalye on 04/15/2010 08:13:16
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22403 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2010 :  08:44:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Harsh I'll take a look. What I really want is for people I follow to only Tweet what I want to read
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harsh_athalye
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

India
5520 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2010 :  09:13:14  Show Profile  Visit harsh_athalye's Homepage  Click to see harsh_athalye's MSN Messenger address  Send harsh_athalye a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Kristen,

Then you might have to drug them with mind-control drug!

Harsh Athalye
http://www.letsgeek.net/
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