SQL Server Forums
Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | Forum FAQ
 
Register Now and get your question answered!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Site Related Forums
 The Yak Corral
 Why I'm not a DBA
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Lavos
Posting Yak Master

USA
200 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  09:40:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There comes a time when you've really got to face facts. I've recently renamed a server and it fubared the sql agent stuff running on it. It now thinks that the jobs I had defined are part of a master/target relationship, only there is no freakin master. I can't modify, delete, or do anything to the jobs. arrrggg. I just can't rename the server back either. It'll be fixed when I reformat that server, but christ is it annoying in the meantime. I don't have a clue how to fix it the "right" way though. And that's the tip of the ice berg. I don't know anything about maintenance plans, replication, dts or bulk import, and I could go on.

On the other hand, the depth of knowledge for people to think they know relational databases is extremely small. After sitting through two tech interviews of people who said they were at least "intermediate" in level, I've come to the conclusion I must be super advanced, with some of the people that are on this board ultra-super advanced. I mean, I know squat about the administrative part of SQL Server, I can't even get DTS working the way I want so I end up writing all of my data migration scripts between my application releases by hand, yet I don't go around saying I'm a dba or some crap. But people that say they are intermediate level and referring to using a left join as something special that shows how smart they are. blah.

----------------------
"O Theos mou! Echo ten labrida en te mou kephale!"

So Long and Thanks for the Links.

Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!

Australia
4970 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  09:44:07  Show Profile  Visit Merkin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You would be amazed how many "DBAs" don't know what a left join is.

Damian
Go to Top of Page

Crespo24
Village Idiot

Iraq
144 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  09:45:25  Show Profile  Visit Crespo24's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I've been recommended to do the MCDBA because they said it would help me in my future IT career.

I actually want to become a DBA because it is a wicked job to do.... I mean a good DBA would have very little work to do.. that's if he is good at what he does!

oh... and the money is good... if I do it and pass my exams then I wil be earning over 60k which isn't too bad for a 24 year old me thinks.

Also... being a DBA is not that hard... I mean the DBAs we have here don't really do as much as people think.. especially with SQL-Server.. its mostly click click click... and bang! It's all done...
I even managed to get access to restoring, creating and backing up databases.. LOL... I am not suppose to tell anyone.. Ooops!
Regards.



Edited by - Crespo24 on 03/13/2003 09:47:26
Go to Top of Page

Crespo24
Village Idiot

Iraq
144 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  09:59:18  Show Profile  Visit Crespo24's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

You would be amazed how many "DBAs" don't know what a left join is.

Damian



Hey you... Yo.. Aussied dude... why didn't you reply to my last message?! That's a bit disrespectful me thinks?

Come on... I have wild views too... wanna share them with me?!

Hey Damian.. you know you want to exercise some of your power.. you KNOW it makes sense.

Hugs and kisses from the Night Elf race.... no BJs though... we don't do that! LOL

Go to Top of Page

Andraax
Aged Yak Warrior

Sweden
790 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  10:19:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Firstly: MCDBA exam is shit.

Secondly: 60k UK pounds or what? That's nasty man...


Go to Top of Page

Crespo24
Village Idiot

Iraq
144 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  10:22:50  Show Profile  Visit Crespo24's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

Firstly: MCDBA exam is shit.

Secondly: 60k UK pounds or what? That's nasty man...






Yea... 60k Uk pounds.. why is that nasty?! Not enough?!!!!

Also.. why is the MCDBA shit?! I am interested to know.. because I am seriously thinking of doing it.

Thanks for your input.


Go to Top of Page

robvolk
Most Valuable Yak

USA
15688 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  10:35:58  Show Profile  Visit robvolk's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
because I am seriously thinking of doing it.
If you're SERIOUSLY thinking about it, that's fine. But if you're gonna go the braindump or boot camp route, don't bother, the world can stand to have fewer of those kind of MCDBA's.

Go to Top of Page

nr
SQLTeam MVY

United Kingdom
12543 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  10:37:14  Show Profile  Visit nr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Amazing how many people think that being an mcdba means they know how to be a dba.

>> I can't even get DTS working the way I want so I end up writing all of my data migration scripts between my application releases by hand
Excellent - sounds like you know more than you realise.

>> I don't know anything about maintenance plans, replication, dts or bulk import, and I could go on.

A lot of people think they do.
I never use maint plans.
dts - I spent two weeks (virtually full time) testing various scenarios to take a contract using it (then discovered they were using it for no reason - well because they didn't know what they were doing).
Replication - similar story - too easy for someone to mess it up.
Bulk import - simple, efficient but limitted.

Problem with all these things is that people find out about them. Read bol. Get an example working so think there is no problem. Don't test failures, multi-threading, different scenarios, large data volumes, ... Then wonder why things go wrong a few weeks after going live.
Important to stick to things you know about and to allow a lot of time for testing anything new.

==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.
DTS can be used in a similar way.
Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy.
Go to Top of Page

Crespo24
Village Idiot

Iraq
144 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  10:52:18  Show Profile  Visit Crespo24's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

quote:
because I am seriously thinking of doing it.
If you're SERIOUSLY thinking about it, that's fine. But if you're gonna go the braindump or boot camp route, don't bother, the world can stand to have fewer of those kind of MCDBA's.





I don't get it... what do you mean?! When I say serious I mean doing it with a positive approach.
And anyway.... what is wring with MCDBA.. I like Microsoft... yes guys.. I am not ant-American as you might like to think...
and I thought that MCDBA is a good certification... please guys... has anybody done it in the past?
Is it worth doing?

By the way rob.. I am actually good at my job.. so if I am to become a DBA I will make sure that I am a good one at that.
All the crap you get from here isn't really me... it's just a bit of fun when I get borrrrred....

Go to Top of Page

nr
SQLTeam MVY

United Kingdom
12543 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  10:59:51  Show Profile  Visit nr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
>> Is it worth doing?
If you want a piece of paper then yes.
If you want to learn to do the job then no - that only comes from experience on many different systems.

==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.
DTS can be used in a similar way.
Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy.
Go to Top of Page

robvolk
Most Valuable Yak

USA
15688 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  11:03:17  Show Profile  Visit robvolk's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The problem, as Nigel and others have pointed out, is that far too many people take some kind of shortcut regarding MS certification. Brain dumps, exam crams and boot camps. Things that give them enough knowledge to pass the exam, but not enough knowledge for them to realize they are ill-prepared to actually do the job. They get jobs based on their certification and end up getting fired or ruining a business cause they've never actually DONE IT. That may not be as widespread in the UK but it was almost pandemic here.

Unfortunately it has seriously diminished the certification's value. I personally would never hire someone just because they had MCDBA after their name (not that I'm in a position to hire anyone) If anything, they're gonna get grilled extra crispy by me during the interview, and they'd better have knowledge I don't have if they expect to get the job.

Again, there is no substitute for experience, and as long as you use experience as your foundation in persuing the certification you'll do well.

Go to Top of Page

chadmat
The Chadinator

USA
1974 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  11:07:37  Show Profile  Visit chadmat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Crespo24,

It is a good cert, but it isn't a license to walk into your bosses office and demand a raise.

It really doesn't even mean you know how to be a DBA. I think it is a good starting point, but I wouldn't expect to walk out of the exam room, and expect to be handed the keys to the crown jewels of the business.

-Chad

Go to Top of Page

Crespo24
Village Idiot

Iraq
144 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  11:54:44  Show Profile  Visit Crespo24's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hmmm.. guys guys are you not missing the point?!

I know that doing the MCDBA is not going to make you the top DBA in the world, and as nr pointed out.. you can only become a good DBA through experience. BUT.. how on earth do you get the experience if you can't get the job?!

Doing the MCDBA will obviously improve my skill set as well as open new doors for my future...

I've been thinking about this for quite a while now... I am not really sure which route to take to be honest.
Do I learn VB together with SQL-Server? go for .NET instead? Or carry on with SQL-Server only? As in DBA stuff etc?

Please guys some advice... and by the way.. I live and work in the UK (well not for long if those damn trains don't improved!)

You know.. I check the train timetables here and it says 3.37 minutes journey time... yeah... my ass! Took me 6 hours to get there!

Anyway...... I like this topic... please keep the info coming.. this is good stuff...a

Oh.. I am interested to know what kind of positions you guys hold?
nr, Page[I don't like you], Graz, rob... what posts do you guys hold? and how old are you?

Cheers!


Go to Top of Page

Crespo24
Village Idiot

Iraq
144 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  11:57:40  Show Profile  Visit Crespo24's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

Crespo24,

It is a good cert, but it isn't a license to walk into your bosses office and demand a raise.

It really doesn't even mean you know how to be a DBA. I think it is a good starting point, but I wouldn't expect to walk out of the exam room, and expect to be handed the keys to the crown jewels of the business.

-Chad




... I did not expect that mate! I know I know.. I ain't that stupid and all that crap by me was just some fun... honest... I just had to get this place buzzing again..... and it worked!!!!! LOL

Anyway..... you must admit though, that doing the exam WILL help in future positions... at least it shows you to be someone who knows things....

Thanks for your input... LOL... I wish I could get a pay rise.. actually I am getting one in May....

Go to Top of Page

nr
SQLTeam MVY

United Kingdom
12543 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  12:25:09  Show Profile  Visit nr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
>>I've been thinking about this for quite a while now... I am not really sure which route to take to be honest.
Do I learn VB together with SQL-Server? go for .NET instead? Or carry on with SQL-Server only? As in DBA stuff etc?

You will need an app to go with it as you will need to be expert on database access methods as well. A lot of problems can be caused by the app doing odd things with transactions and connections.

VB or .net?
I prefer VB as a dev language as .net loses a lot of the things that make VB a good tool. If you a learning from scratch it makes sense to go for .net. Consider c# rather than VB.net. Also the SP call method has lost a lot of flexibility in VB.net so will need to learn that anyway as it affects the way you define the interface.
The VB upgrade wizard is a waste of space.

Just get them both and start playing.
Just developing an app to call an SP and displey the results in a grid is good start.
From that make the database access an separate class so you can change it without changing the app and you will already know a lot about the language and the db access object structure.

Concentrate more on database design and system architecture, if that's good it should be easy to cope with any failures in the apps.

(There was a contract advertised in near epsom recently - was that your place?
Think there was also a company there that was doing personalised game avatars)

==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.
DTS can be used in a similar way.
Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy.

Edited by - nr on 03/13/2003 12:26:25

Edited by - nr on 03/13/2003 12:28:37
Go to Top of Page

Crespo24
Village Idiot

Iraq
144 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  12:45:08  Show Profile  Visit Crespo24's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

VB or .net?
I prefer VB as a dev language as .net loses a lot of the things that make VB a good tool. If you a learning from scratch it makes sense to go for .net. Consider c# rather than VB.net. Also the SP call method has lost a lot of flexibility in VB.net so will need to learn that anyway as it affects the way you define the interface.
The VB upgrade wizard is a waste of space.



Exactly.. that's what I thought.... C# was also suggested.. but the problem with VB or .NET and even c# is that it will take me quite a long time to get my skills parallel with my SQL-server. For someone like me with slightly over 2 years IT experience, it is not a good idea.
Also I am thinking of going Freelance soon, so maybe sticking with SQL-Server is wiser? I really don't know..

quote:

Just get them both and start playing.
Just developing an app to call an SP and displey the results in a grid is good start.


Yea... I am actually buying a new computer before the end of this month but I will have to find the money to buy the software

quote:

(There was a contract advertised in near epsom recently - was that your place?
Think there was also a company there that was doing personalised game avatars)




Noooo! don't you dare find out where I work
I don't want you comming into my office! Please!


Go to Top of Page

nr
SQLTeam MVY

United Kingdom
12543 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  13:01:12  Show Profile  Visit nr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
>> I don't want you comming into my office! Please!
Amazing how many people say that to me.

If you are going freelance then I sugest you get a msdn subscription. Unfortunately it costs around £1500 but is invaluable.

Until then buy books which include evaluation versions of software.

You will be junior so companies will expect you to be learning on the job - and to bug people with questions.


==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.
DTS can be used in a similar way.
Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy.
Go to Top of Page

Crespo24
Village Idiot

Iraq
144 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  13:03:24  Show Profile  Visit Crespo24's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

>> I don't want you comming into my office! Please!
Amazing how many people say that to me.

If you are going freelance then I sugest you get a msdn subscription. Unfortunately it costs around £1500 but is invaluable.

Until then buy books which include evaluation versions of software.

You will be junior so companies will expect you to be learning on the job - and to bug people with questions.


==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.
DTS can be used in a similar way.
Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy.



So which one? MCDBA? VB? .NET or C# if I am thinking of going freelance in say 1 years time?
That will give me 3 years IT experience.

Any advice?


Go to Top of Page

chadmat
The Chadinator

USA
1974 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  13:10:17  Show Profile  Visit chadmat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I would go for .Net. C# or VB.Net it doesn't really matter, if you have half a brain, you can easily translate one to the other (And if you don't, there are translators).

Learning .Net will prepare you for the future of software development. Also, I would disagree with Nigel's recommendation for VB 6 because you will not be able to use VB 6 as tightly integrated with Yukon as any of the CLR languages.

Continuing the MCDBA topic, I believe the cert is a good tool to help get you interviews. However, once the questions start coming, you better know the answers, and even more important. If you actually land the job, You really better know what your doing because (As many people seem to do around here) when you truncate the main table, and you forgot to make a backup, that MCDBA cert doesn't help much.

-Chad



Go to Top of Page

Crespo24
Village Idiot

Iraq
144 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  13:12:06  Show Profile  Visit Crespo24's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

I would go for .Net. C# or VB.Net it doesn't really matter, if you have half a brain, you can easily translate one to the other (And if you don't, there are translators).

Learning .Net will prepare you for the future of software development. Also, I would disagree with Nigel's recommendation for VB 6 because you will not be able to use VB 6 as tightly integrated with Yukon as any of the CLR languages.

Continuing the MCDBA topic, I believe the cert is a good tool to help get you interviews. However, once the questions start coming, you better know the answers, and even more important. If you actually land the job, You really better know what your doing because (As many people seem to do around here) when you truncate the main table, and you forgot to make a backup, that MCDBA cert doesn't help much.

-Chad




I am getting more confused
For 2 years experience and wnting to fo freelance which is safest option though?


Go to Top of Page

chadmat
The Chadinator

USA
1974 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2003 :  13:18:41  Show Profile  Visit chadmat's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Freelance, I would guess you better know a bit about a lot of stuff.

The guys I know that freelance know .Net, COM, C++, C#, VB etc...

of course they aren't that strong at SQL. Also, I am speaking from a US perspective. We are getting more and more .Net projects. I can't remeber the last time we got a VB 6.0 project.

-Chad

Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
SQL Server Forums © 2000-2009 SQLTeam Publishing, LLC Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.2 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000