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Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior

USA
571 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2005 :  12:54:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The world is becoming more hostile, haughty and loveless.

I think haughty is for sure part of the newer internet.
Seems the mud used to fly a lot more but it meant a lot less.
Now a days seems more posters call for moderation, there is
more outcry against the misplaced "FARK" (balatant troll) post.
And a rise in the

"Why won't you do my work for me" posts.

I attribute the water "sticking" to the ducks back thing
to a lack of contemplation of oneself.

In the SQL world when even industry leaders need babysitting....

quote:

I would like to personally and on behalf of Andy, Brian, and SQLServerCentral.com apologize to Ken Henderson for publishing his work without credit.

It's a big statement, but one that I feel needs to be made. Recently I received a couple of emails from concerned members of the SQLServerCentral.com community. It seems that an article that we published in January was plagiarized from Ken Henderson's The Guru's Guide to Transact SQL. As I was on vacation, I couldn't deal with it for a few days, and I needed to find my copy of the book to check the allegation. Before I could, Mr. Henderson emailed and confirmed just that.

I promptly removed the content and put a placeholder up there instead, noting there was a copyright issue. I then contacted Ken and he confirmed that two other articles submitted by Kalpesh Thaker were also plagiarized from his books and I removed them as well.

I am truly sorry that this happened and there is no excuse to be made. I do not check the submissions we receive against any type of full text search to see if they have been copied and I'm not sure that I can, but I thought that this release could serve two purposes.

First, a public apology to Ken Henderson for having his work out there for months without credit being given.

Second, I would like to let the community know what has happened. I'm hoping that you who read these articles will keep an eye out for this horrible practice of copyright violation. Since many of you are reading more SQL books than I, or perhaps more recently reading them, you'll be in a better place to spot this than I.

With the explosion of the Internet, the growth of SQL Server, and quite a few new book publishing companies, including ours, it's difficult to track down plagiarism. It's also created opportunities for many more people to write and publish works themselves. This means that many more people are out there creating articles and books than ever before.

However publishing something carries a responsibility as well. If you put your name on something, it needs to be your original work. Rewriting someone else's work is acceptable only if you have added additional value and substantially changed their work. If I wanted to write my own "Internals" book, the language would need to be my own. The chapters would be what I decided and they shouldn't mirror what Kalen Delaney wrote.

The same thing applies here. The author said that Mr. Henderson had done a better job of writing, so he just used what was in Mr. Henderson's book. That's not only illegal, it's very immoral. You are misrepresenting yourself and your knowledge as well as infringing upon someone else's work. If you didn't write it, don't take credit for it.

I offer no excuses for what happened and if there is anything that I can do to prevent it in the future I will.

Steve Jones




From http://www.sqlservercentral.com/columnists/sjones/apologiestokenhenderson.asp

quote:

Kalpesh Thaker is a Senior Database Engineer at Triple Point Technology India Pvt. Ltd.,Pune(India) a subsidiary of Triple Point Inc, U.S.A which has been named as "Deloitte's prestigious Technology Fast 50 program awarded" as one of the fastest growing company in supplier of commodity trading has 4.5 yrs of experience in IT Industry. He has passion for Microsoft SQL Server and various other Microsoft Technologies. He loves playing and analyzing data to suit business needs.



So, what hope for the self control of the rest of us. Probably better than this guy.

I wish someone would start an Official XML Rant Thread.
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spirit1
Cybernetic Yak Master

Slovenia
11751 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2005 :  13:07:46  Show Profile  Visit spirit1's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ok... i can understand someone getting an illegal copy of a book or a song or a movie or whatever...
but then publishing it under your own name??? just how stupid can you be????
not to talk about moral issues...

Go with the flow & have fun! Else fight the flow
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Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior

USA
571 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2005 :  13:25:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Love how the quoting drags an accounting firm in this. Just tooo funny.

I did it to demonstrate an attack of course, I'm in an "anti-accountant" phase.

I wish someone would start an Official XML Rant Thread.
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Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior

USA
571 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2005 :  13:42:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just Googling to find out about this guy...not much out there.

http://www.obssa.com/about.shtml

might have an association...I wonder how his bretheren feel of the behaviour of one of their own. Shame, shame.



I wish someone would start an Official XML Rant Thread.
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Thrasymachus
Constraint Violating Yak Guru

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2005 :  13:44:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kristen

How about a forum which is read-only for people with less than 1,000 posts, people with more than 1,000 posts can post new topics, but only peple with > 10,000 posts can reply.

Sort of like your own private Tara ... now that would suit me just nicely

Kristen



I remember helping you a couple of times recently with my meager number of posts. I do not think you can correlate experience with number of posts. Before my current company, for a few years I was so busy there was no way I could spend this much time on message boards.

I almost think it should be the other way around. Only on rare occassions as a last resort and out of desparation do I start a topic because 99% of the time I find it easier to get answers from Google, MSDN, KB articles, BOL and the stack of books I have laying around.


====================================================
Regards,
Sean Roussy

GENERAL ADVICE FOR EVERYONE: Please backup all of your databases including master, msdb and model on a regular basis. I am tired of telling people they are screwed. The job you save may be your own.
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nr
SQLTeam MVY

United Kingdom
12543 Posts

Posted - 07/28/2005 :  13:45:11  Show Profile  Visit nr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
>> The author said that Mr. Henderson had done a better job of writing, so he just used what was in Mr. Henderson's book.

Can I use that excuse to re-publish the Harry Potter books under my name?

==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.
DTS can be used in a similar way.
Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy.
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elwoos
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

United Kingdom
2050 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  10:35:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I must say that I had noticed the things that Jen points out too. Part of the problem is of course the nature of the medium but we are all (or nearly all) quite familiar with that an know that it can and does happen. I think that we all need to remember that this is a community where the aim is to help each other in our own way.

In particular I agree with AJ. I support the idea of giving clues of what to look for in BOL. The very first time I ever used Excel it took me nearly two days to work out how to put a function in a cell because there was virtually nothing anywhere (even in the help) that said you have to type an = and I couldn't think what to search for.

steve

Alright Brain, you don't like me, and I don't like you. But lets just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer.
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  11:01:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sometimes it easy to get frustrated when you see a slight variation of the same question for 50th time. If it makes you mad, just don't post anything, usually someone else wlll answer. Just answer the posts that you feel like.

I think there are some people that abuse the helpfulness of the people on the forum, and maybe this leads to some of the frustration and un-civil remarks.

I have been watching the thread on the link below, and I am starting to suspect that he is just using this forum to develop his system. As much as I might dislike this, I am just letting it go by not posting on the thread. And I could just be completly wrong in my opinion; it wouldn't be the first time.
http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=52403




CODO ERGO SUM
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22415 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  11:25:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well ... hes courteous, and readily posts a stack of DDL and INSERT stuff ... but IKWYM

Kristen
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rockmoose
SQL Natt Alfen

Sweden
3279 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  14:03:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think I have been exemplarily patient on that thread (and the other).
I just think he might have gotten in over his head, and needed some support.
Maybe given the benefit of a doubt.

Thanx for all the insights, laughs, knowledge, discussions, arguments, code, stupid questions and more that You all keep posting here.
That's what makes SQLTEAM so great!

Yeah, and thanks for all the support on that thread!

Edit: IKWYM MVJ

rockmoose

Edited by - rockmoose on 07/29/2005 14:04:52
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22415 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  14:15:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Thanx for all the insights, laughs, ..."

Damn ... got caught out pointing a finger in the playground again!

"Yeah, and thanks for all the support on that thread!"

Best entertainment we've had for years, Rocky!

Seriously for a moment [stop chucking those stones!] I just don't have the time for those really detailed querries, it takes me an ages - what with me being a Byslexic Dastard and all!

Kristen
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22415 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  14:42:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OMG - is this another one?

http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=52984
http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=53021

I suppose I get really concerned about people who appear to be clutsing around and appear to have no basics. Then there are those, in that same "group", who don't hear or act on anything you say. There's a wonman who posts here occasionally who is in my Twit list for that reason - waste of energy trying to tell her anything. Can't rember her name, but that's probably 'coz she hasn't posted for a while, but I'm sure my Twit list is all ready to go <Ding!> the next time she posts something.

Kristen
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  14:54:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You have shown way more patience than I ever could. Maybe I have seen it too much where I work.

I think some of the posters really need to start with a basic introduction to SQL programming. I have posted the links below a few times for people that I really thought didn't have even a basic understanding of SQL.

They are free basic SQL training and a lot of people can benefit from them. When people ask me about training where I work, I send them these links.

Does anyone else have any good training links, especially free ones?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Here are a couple of online courses that are a good introduction to the basics of SQL. They should be taken in sequence.
http://www.sqlcourse.com/
http://sqlcourse2.com/


The following site has a number of free training classes available: HTML, XML, SQL, .NET, Scripting, Building web sites, etc. It also offers online quizzes.
This SQL Course includes a page where you can run your own queries, and a quiz.:
http://www.w3schools.com/sql/default.asp
Home Page showing all courses:
http://www.w3schools.com/default.asp


quote:
Originally posted by rockmoose

I think I have been exemplarily patient on that thread (and the other).
I just think he might have gotten in over his head, and needed some support.
Maybe given the benefit of a doubt.

Thanx for all the insights, laughs, knowledge, discussions, arguments, code, stupid questions and more that You all keep posting here.
That's what makes SQLTEAM so great!

Yeah, and thanks for all the support on that thread!

Edit: IKWYM MVJ

rockmoose



CODO ERGO SUM
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22415 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  15:05:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Graz : How's that Beginners Forum coming along?

Kristen
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  15:06:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really thought this one was over the top. It seems to be "Here's all my code, please optimize it". Not much of a surprise that it got no responses at all.
http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=53012


quote:
Originally posted by Kristen

OMG - is this another one?

http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=52984
http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=53021

I suppose I get really concerned about people who appear to be clutsing around and appear to have no basics. Then there are those, in that same "group", who don't hear or act on anything you say. There's a wonman who posts here occasionally who is in my Twit list for that reason - waste of energy trying to tell her anything. Can't rember her name, but that's probably 'coz she hasn't posted for a while, but I'm sure my Twit list is all ready to go <Ding!> the next time she posts something.

Kristen



CODO ERGO SUM
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jhermiz
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

USA
3564 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  15:08:59  Show Profile  Visit jhermiz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Can I be on your twit list kristen ;)


Keeping the web experience alive -- http://www.web-impulse.com
Imperfection living for perfection --
http://jhermiz.blogspot.com/
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22415 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  15:12:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
<NoBite>
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rockmoose
SQL Natt Alfen

Sweden
3279 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  15:57:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Making a "sticky topic" out of Your links MVJ, and also Brett's "how to post a question", would be really great.

There is sooo much on the internet, the difficult part is distilling it.
Just look at the topic/link list at sqlteam front page !, months to wade through.
For the real beginners 3 good links involving :

- a) how to post a query
- a) database design/normalization

Make these a "sticky" or available somewhere easily accessible, not forgettable and visible here on the forums.

http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=101 is free ! btw.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Does anyone else have any good training links, especially free ones?
http://www.sqlteam.com/
Not for training, no. BOL, MSDN.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You know, I really like the poster from Kristen's links, the name "notsosuper", is only surpassed by "nosepicker",
and his spelling of snytax still makes me smile.

Derelict Custard, I told You...

rockmoose
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Sitka
Aged Yak Warrior

USA
571 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  16:32:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Does anyone else have any good training links, especially free ones?


http://sqlzoo.net/


I wish someone would start an Official XML Rant Thread.
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graz
Chief SQLTeam Crack Dealer

USA
4137 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2005 :  18:13:23  Show Profile  Visit graz's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kristen

Graz : How's that Beginners Forum coming along?

Kristen



I've been thinking about a pretty serious forum reorg based around SQL Server 2005. I think I will try a beginners forum and see how it works.

I have been following this thread with some interest as I've seen the same things every one else has. I'm not sure the best way to return to those days -- or if it's even possible. But I certainly appreciate everyone's thoughts on it.

===============================================
Creating tomorrow's legacy systems today.
One crisis at a time.
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