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X002548
Not Just a Number

15586 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2005 :  10:23:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoad

jen!
BWA-HA-HA!
It was a joke! I hardly know who that Igor is!
As for my absence here; it's really a tough job for me to communicate
with my friends (yes! I count all of you as my friends!) via foreign
language. N-o-t-h-i-n-g more than that.




DUDE! How are you?



Brett

8-)

Hint: Want your questions answered fast? Follow the direction in this link
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/brettk/archive/2005/05/25/5276.aspx
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r937
Posting Yak Master

Canada
112 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2005 :  13:09:15  Show Profile  Visit r937's Homepage  Reply with Quote
brett, buddy has now linked to you

http://www.dbdebunk.com/page/page/2476644.htm

oh joy! oh frabjous day!

rudy
http://r937.com/
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22431 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2005 :  14:06:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"I don't make links because Google would give more weight to their article and THEY ARE DEAD WRONG so I can't possibly do that"

Kristen
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eyechart
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

USA
3575 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2005 :  14:37:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kristen

"I don't make links because Google would give more weight to their article and THEY ARE DEAD WRONG so I can't possibly do that"

Kristen




K. I'm not sure what you are quoting, is that from Pascal's article?



-ec

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X002548
Not Just a Number

15586 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2005 :  15:10:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow I'm honored.


EDIT: Cool, I'm getting quite a collection now, maybe I can write 3 books, which will make me smarter than you all.

http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/brettk/archive/2005/08/11/7516.aspx

Brett

8-)

Hint: Want your questions answered fast? Follow the direction in this link
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/brettk/archive/2005/05/25/5276.aspx

Edited by - X002548 on 09/30/2005 15:19:27
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2005 :  15:10:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, Fabian Pascal says this (Notice how I provide a link to an article I disagree with?):
http://www.dbdebunk.com/page/page/2476644.htm
"Well, there is a double reason I have not always referenced links. First, if you know how “link popularity” works, I saw no reason to contribute to that misleading measure—why should I help make something I prove wrong, popular? And second, why should I make such material easier to access?"

The real reason for providing the link is so that the reader can refer to the original, unedited source, and make their own judgment about what is said, unfiltered by someone else. Anyone who is really a scholar understands this, and allows for the possibility that they may have misinterpreted what was said, accidentally edited out important material, or just been unfair. Failure to provide such access indicates a desire to not have to defend his own opinions, and it certainly a questionable intellectual position for someone who claims to be in the business of debunking.



CODO ERGO SUM
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22431 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2005 :  15:12:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"I'm not sure what you are quoting, is that from Pascal's article"

My interpretation, rather than a quote, but as MVJ says.

Kristen
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X002548
Not Just a Number

15586 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2005 :  15:22:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Valentine Jones

OK, Fabian Pascal says this (Notice how I provide a link to an article I disagree with?):
http://www.dbdebunk.com/page/page/2476644.htm
"Well, there is a double reason I have not always referenced links. First, if you know how “link popularity” works, I saw no reason to contribute to that misleading measure—why should I help make something I prove wrong, popular? And second, why should I make such material easier to access?"

The real reason for providing the link is so that the reader can refer to the original, unedited source, and make their own judgment about what is said, unfiltered by someone else. Anyone who is really a scholar understands this, and allows for the possibility that they may have misinterpreted what was said, accidentally edited out important material, or just been unfair. Failure to provide such access indicates a desire to not have to defend his own opinions, and it certainly a questionable intellectual position for someone who claims to be in the business of debunking.



CODO ERGO SUM



nicely said

I kinda tried to say that in my blog, but you put it out there quite a bit better....



Brett

8-)

Hint: Want your questions answered fast? Follow the direction in this link
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/brettk/archive/2005/05/25/5276.aspx
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X002548
Not Just a Number

15586 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2005 :  15:32:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like this one

quote:

Well, the only thing one can do is insult, question motives, criticize style, simply declare that one was “misinterpreted”, or “plagiarized” without any proof,



without any proof? That's what my whol blog entry is about...supplying the proof.

Insult? When did I insult him?

EDIT: And I just realized, he didn't credit my name this time. He just supplied the link.

And he says I charged being of no substance, I said he doesn't support his community, or provide any useful assistance, but I don't think I ever said he didn't have substance.

The fact that I think he's full of s....ubstance, is a different matter.


Brett

8-)

Hint: Want your questions answered fast? Follow the direction in this link
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/brettk/archive/2005/05/25/5276.aspx

Edited by - X002548 on 09/30/2005 15:56:36
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rockmoose
SQL Natt Alfen

Sweden
3279 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2005 :  16:14:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I respect the position FB has taken on the RM, the state of the industry and the society.
FB has more rights than wrongs IMO.

About the links...
He should provide them, there is no justification not to in my world.
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elwoos
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

United Kingdom
2050 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2005 :  08:17:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Seems to be a good case for self censorship here


steve

-----------

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
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X002548
Not Just a Number

15586 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  10:34:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rockmoose

I respect the position FB has taken on the RM, the state of the industry and the society.



Ah, a substantitive argument finally.

You'll notice that none of this has been about the topic at hand.

It's all about Mr. Pascals character.

Whether or not he is making a valid point or not is not the issue.

And so what? Does it manifest itself in helping me get my job day to day? Do we not all discuss basically the same facts? Do we need/want to be insulted? Do we stand by we we are misquoted?

There is a longer list of questions, but the answer to all of them is a short one.

No




Brett

8-)

Hint: Want your questions answered fast? Follow the direction in this link
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/brettk/archive/2005/05/25/5276.aspx
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X002548
Not Just a Number

15586 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  11:01:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rockmoose

I respect the position FB has taken on the RM, the state of the industry and the society.



Ah, a substantitive argument finally.

You'll notice that none of this has been about the topic at hand.

It's all about Mr. Pascals character.

Whether or not he is making a valid point or not is not the issue.

And so what? Does it manifest itself in helping me get my job day to day? Do we not all discuss basically the same facts? Do we need/want to be insulted? Do we stand by we we are misquoted?

There is a longer list of questions, but the answer to all of them is a short one.

No




Brett

8-)

Hint: Want your questions answered fast? Follow the direction in this link
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/brettk/archive/2005/05/25/5276.aspx
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JimL
SQL Slinging Yak Ranger

USA
1535 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  11:06:17  Show Profile  Visit JimL's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So you want me to go pay him a little visit.

Jokeing aside this guy seems to get his rocks off at pissing people off and stealing others ideas.

If you let him get to you he is getting what he wants.

Next time he starts getting to you just imagine him there franticly trying to find someone else’s solution with his sticky mouse and keyboard.

Jim
Users <> Logic
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jsmith8858
Dr. Cross Join

USA
7423 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  11:25:06  Show Profile  Visit jsmith8858's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I do dislike that he said he "debunked an exchange at sqlteam", but of course he only referenced and quoted the single post of a guy who has about 3 posts at sqlteam and none of our responses. It really made us look bad. He did not debunk an "exchange", he debunked a single statement ... which, of course, is what we all did in every one of our responses. He "debunked" where no debunking was needed, and he implied that he was the only one smart enough to debunk it and/or to realize that it needed to be, as if we all just accepted those statements and comments here.

I don't know enough about him and I haven't read many of his articles to make general judgemetns about him .... are there any good links to *free* ones out there? Everywhere I go on his site, it asks me to pay ...
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Michael Valentine Jones
Yak DBA Kernel (pronounced Colonel)

USA
7020 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  11:49:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would say in this article, he said absolutely nothing about anything to do with the database industry, other than a few Ad Hominem slanders against people that dared to criticize him for failing to provide links to the threads he quoted so extensively.
http://www.dbdebunk.com/page/page/2476644.htm

He seems to think that anyone that disagrees with him about providing links is doing so because they disagree with what he is saying in the articles where he does actually say something about the database industry. Since he quoted me to close the article and basically agreed with what I said, I don’t think that is the problem that I had.
http://www.dbm.nl/site/Hetblad/Columns/Pascal.html

He needs to consider that we may actually agree with him on some points, and disagree on others, and that we may actually be making valid points about his failure to provide links. If he does not wish to provide links to articles, that is his privilege, but that does not put him beyond criticism. The fact that he devoted a whole column to answering this criticism of failing to provide links, instead of the actual purpose of his column, debunking database myths, shows an almost hysterical obsession with people that criticize him. His skin is certainly very thin for someone who spends so much time criticizing others.




CODO ERGO SUM
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X002548
Not Just a Number

15586 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  12:14:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]The fact that he devoted a whole column to answering this criticism of failing to provide links, instead of the actual purpose of his column, debunking database myths, shows an almost hysterical obsession with people that criticize him. His skin is certainly very thin for someone who spends so much time criticizing others.



Bingo

Johnny, tell him what he's won.....



Brett

8-)

Hint: Want your questions answered fast? Follow the direction in this link
http://weblogs.sqlteam.com/brettk/archive/2005/05/25/5276.aspx
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derrickleggett
Pointy Haired Yak DBA

USA
4184 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  12:35:37  Show Profile  Visit derrickleggett's Homepage  Send derrickleggett an AOL message  Send derrickleggett a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
The whole article shows that he's an idiot. I wouldn't be surprised if he's senile Celko's older, more senile brother. They both have provided value to the industry. They're are also both IDIOTS!!!!

And you don't even have to include where you quoted that from, if you're into plagiarism.

MeanOldDBA
derrickleggett@hotmail.com

When life gives you a lemon, fire the DBA.
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eyechart
Flowing Fount of Yak Knowledge

USA
3575 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  12:42:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought his reason for not linking to his sources was a little thin too. There is a better argument for him to use, but he just didn't think to use it. The better argument for not linking to a thread is that the thread can changed and be edited. The posts in question could be removed by the person who submitted them. This is another issue altogether and it surprises me a little that he did not bring that aspect up.



-ec
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Kristen
Test

United Kingdom
22431 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2005 :  12:51:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Be interesting to see if he does now ...

... and if your post is still there tomorrow

Kristen
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