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 Best steps to becoming a DBA.
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AskSQLTeam
Ask SQLTeam Question

USA
0 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  10:13:31  Show Profile  Visit AskSQLTeam's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wayne writes "I have knowledge of MS Access but would like to get involved in administration of databases such as SQL Server 7.0. Is it necessary for me to know SQL. I am not very keen on getting too deep into programming What OS would I normally need to know? My ultimate goal is to become a DBA. I have knowledge of Windows 2000 Server."

Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!

Australia
4970 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  10:27:03  Show Profile  Visit Merkin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Beer and Coffee seem to be important.

Yes learning SQL is very important for SQL Server, you would also want NT 4 and Win 2k.

A little bit of vbscript wouldn't help either.

Hope that helps a little.



Damian
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!

Australia
4970 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  10:27:42  Show Profile  Visit Merkin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sorry, I will rephrase that.


Beer and Coffee are crucial




Damian
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penumatsa
Constraint Violating Yak Guru

USA
289 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  10:55:29  Show Profile  Visit penumatsa's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You need to know SQL. Apart from that, you need to know the internal architecture of SQL Server and knowledge of the Operating system which is of course Windows NT or Windows 2000. You need to have patience and need to endure stress. And of course, a lot of coffee and beer.

suresh penumatsa
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dtong004
Constraint Violating Yak Guru

USA
281 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  11:11:57  Show Profile  Visit dtong004's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You must know at least one more RDBMS other than SQL. Than, arm yourselft to fight.

Daniel

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mfemenel
Professor Frink

USA
1421 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  11:26:33  Show Profile  Visit mfemenel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Don't get sucked into becoming an MCDBA, there are too many out there that don't know what they're doing, certification does not necessarily mean knowledge.

Mike
"A program is a device used to convert data into error messages."
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JustinBigelow
SQL Gigolo

USA
1157 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  11:31:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think its becoming debateable as to how much SQL you need to know to administer SQL Server. Between EM and wizards there is little you can't do from an ADMINISTRATION point of view. As users and authors have pointed out this is not necessarily a good thing. If you are supported by developers who manage the structure of the db then you maybe an adequate admin without SQL knowledge but I wouldnt trust you with my server. If you really want to be an admin learn SQL and learn it well, EM and SQL Server's GUI tools are mainly cosmetic and shouldn't be used as a crutch. If you learn raw SQL the majority of your skills will be tranferrable to other systems that follow most of ANSI specs. IMHO you can be an adequate admin without SQL but you can't be a good one.

m2c,
Justin



Edited by - justinbigelow on 09/13/2001 12:45:27
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royv
Constraint Violating Yak Guru

455 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  12:39:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought this was a pretty good article. My 2 cents.

http://www.sql-server-performance.com/self_taught_dba.asp

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dtong004
Constraint Violating Yak Guru

USA
281 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  12:40:32  Show Profile  Visit dtong004's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I agree with Justin, that SQL is very improtant.

Ignore other voice say "MCDBA is nonsense", as I heard someone says "MBA" don't know business, or "CPA" does not know accounting. "CFA", "RN"...... They say these because they don't have it.

The only problem is that you get one certification, you are tend to stick with that technology, which limit your further broad understanding. That is why I do think another RDBMs system will be helpful.



Daniel




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mfemenel
Professor Frink

USA
1421 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  12:50:04  Show Profile  Visit mfemenel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Actually the other voice says it because of his experience with MCDBA's on this site who have proven what a waste it is.

Mike
"A program is a device used to convert data into error messages."
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master

USA
3246 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  12:59:17  Show Profile  Visit AjarnMark's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Just because you can pass the exam (MCDBA, CPA, RN) does not mean that you make a good DBA, Accountant, Nurse in practice. I think most would agree that there is more to real-life application than passing the tests, but the tests might be a good base to work from if you don't have the experience.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Just because you CAN do something does not mean that you SHOULD!
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master

USA
3246 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  13:01:02  Show Profile  Visit AjarnMark's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Oh, and Wayne, as for your question, I think massive hours spend reading www.SQLTeam.com is a requirement. Then, get a copy of SQL Server and start building some projects so you get that "real-life" experience that is so critical to doing a job well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Just because you CAN do something does not mean that you SHOULD!
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johnsoar
Yak Posting Veteran

66 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  13:14:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The MCDBA test is good for the basic fundamentals and that is all that should be expected if you choose that path. Real interaction with the product, its dependencies and circle of development that surronds it is a must.

(Maybe a brain would help too, but I wouldn't know about that!)

Adam
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JamesH
Posting Yak Master

USA
149 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  15:12:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just my two cents: A good rounded knowledge of RDBMS is critical along with a lot of inner workings of sql. I think the biggest challenges of most DBA's is the ability to work "outside of the box", many times we are faced with problems that there isn't a fix for and we're forced to look at many alternatives sometimes we have to choose one that is against our better judgement. A database is only as good as its initial design, unfortunately most of the time we have no control over the design. As for the MCDBA, it's a designation much as a B.S., MBA etc. It's only as useful as you allow it to be but by no means is it required.

JamesH
"It takes less time to do it right the first time than to explain why you did it wrong."

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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!

Australia
4970 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  19:07:12  Show Profile  Visit Merkin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Daniel

What about MCDBAs who cheat on the exams ?

http://www.leuthard.ch/mcse/029daniel.shtml
http://www.leuthard.ch/mcse/028dan2.shtml

I don't think MS approves of that.



Damian
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nr
SQLTeam MVY

United Kingdom
12543 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  19:30:39  Show Profile  Visit nr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This was my typically useful response to someone asking on another site how much a dba should earn - suggestion was Salary range would be somewhere between $??K and $???K per year.

Depends what you mean by a dba.
Someone who changes tapes for backups
(just realised I probably wouldn't know how to do this)
$??k - $??k

Someone who designs system architecture, database structure, polices code and access to servers, tells the IT manager & board what they can have.
(You can identify these people because everyone is frightened to talk to them)
$???K - $???k

Since then I have discovered that I don't know how to change a tape and that no one wants to talk to me (at work).

==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.

Edited by - nr on 09/13/2001 20:00:30
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Merkin
Funky Drop Bear Fearing SQL Dude!

Australia
4970 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  19:37:20  Show Profile  Visit Merkin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Are you drunk again nr ?

I don't think anybody asked about salary......




Damian
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nr
SQLTeam MVY

United Kingdom
12543 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2001 :  20:21:36  Show Profile  Visit nr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
OK maybe a lot.
Just been persuaded to stay at a company rather than go on holiday - feeling really pissed off.

That as a copy from another site where someone was asking about salary (have edited it now).

Back to thread - never been impressed by microsoft exams - but suspect that they don't preclude talent.
Lot of people take them to get into a field so may be an indication of lack of experience - but handy to know what's available.

Group theory, topology good things to know about for relational database design and sql.

Sounds like the questioner is more aiming towards a production dba role though (this is the area in which I am weak).
Windows 2k a good start - authentication, mapping roles, firewalls, port usage (RPC, DTC), raid disk performance, backup/restore, system tables, checkpointing, transaction logs.

Read inside sql server.
Also sql server dba survival guide (don't think there are recent versions).
SQL server unleashed v6.5 was good and readable - by Kalen Delaney. v7+ a waste of time.

==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.
You learn little from being right - benefit from being wrong.
Cold fizzy beer is wrong.
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mfemenel
Professor Frink

USA
1421 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2001 :  08:49:48  Show Profile  Visit mfemenel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can't help doing this:

English beer should be served on a stick.

Mike
"A program is a device used to convert data into error messages."
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nr
SQLTeam MVY

United Kingdom
12543 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2001 :  09:01:04  Show Profile  Visit nr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well you do put a hot poker in it if it's a bit fizzy.

==========================================
Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.
You learn little from being right - benefit from being wrong.
Cold fizzy beer is wrong.
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mfemenel
Professor Frink

USA
1421 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2001 :  09:05:12  Show Profile  Visit mfemenel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok, that's it NR, the UK is off my list of places to visit.

Mike
"A program is a device used to convert data into error messages."
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