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karuna
Aged Yak Warrior
582 Posts |
 Posted - 2005-10-18 : 06:09:31
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| Well, the title says it all.I would like to know the pros and cons of SQL 2000 Reporting Services and how better is SQL 2005 RS.ThanksKarunakaran |
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elwoos
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
2052 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 06:29:06
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| Pro = It's essentially freePro = It is/will be very widely used which means a lot of support such as this forum |
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karuna
Aged Yak Warrior
582 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 06:41:03
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quote:
Originally posted by elwoos
Pro = It's essentially freePro = It is/will be very widely used which means a lot of support such as this forum
It's essentially free - Yeah I know that, that is one reason suggesting it for client  It is/will be very widely used which means a lot of support such as this forum - Yes, I know this too... But cant say that to a client I need more details on it to present a review report for a client.ThanksKarunakaran |
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Kristen
Test
22859 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 07:28:43
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| "I need more details on it to present a review report for a client"Compare it to the alternatives?Kristen |
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robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 07:33:45
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| Biggest Pro of all: it's not Crystal Reports That might sound facetious, but it's not. I haven't used RS yet, but I can say I am sick and !@#$% tired of Crystal. -It is WAAAAAAAAY too expensive. -Far too difficult to do advanced programming with it. -WORST. MANAGEMENT. INTERFACE. EVER.-WORST. TECHNICAL. SUPPORT. EVER. Don't even bother calling them, seriously, just bang your head on the keyboard, you'll figure it out faster and with less pain.-It is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too expensive.There are a couple of things it can do that RS can't, but IMHO not enough for me to go with if I had the choice. |
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jhermiz
3564 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 08:56:06
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quote:
Originally posted by robvolk
Biggest Pro of all: it's not Crystal Reports That might sound facetious, but it's not. I haven't used RS yet, but I can say I am sick and !@#$% tired of Crystal. -It is WAAAAAAAAY too expensive. -Far too difficult to do advanced programming with it. -WORST. MANAGEMENT. INTERFACE. EVER.-WORST. TECHNICAL. SUPPORT. EVER. Don't even bother calling them, seriously, just bang your head on the keyboard, you'll figure it out faster and with less pain.-It is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too expensive.There are a couple of things it can do that RS can't, but IMHO not enough for me to go with if I had the choice.
I was going to be a little bit more civilized than rob, but he is absolutely right .After blowing hundreds and thousands of dollars (I am serious, check out the licensing costs for crystal reports, that is if you ever understand their silly licensing policies). To this day I am not even sure where we threw all of that money too.Let me give you a run down of crystal-Pro: It can do a lot-Con: The problem with things that can "do a lot" is it is much more difficult to maintain, program, support, understand, learn, and or train.That is the only pro I have found. The interface is rather large so at first it is quite difficult to understand. There is a lot there and it is busy. Programming in it is completly hideous and at times you wonder how the thing is actually working.Their support is horrible, and most of the forums (minus tek-tips) is hardly any help. The suggested answer most of the time is call support or buy some other tool.Crystal is very picky, although I do like the fact that you can change text sizes, fonts, and colors in one single object (the text box object, RS does not support this yet). I don't like the structure or should I say the layout of the entire Crystal engine, the server, and the reporting tools and how they are put together. Like I said all of this costs money.So what did we do, after 2 years of painful crystal reporting we dropped crystal entirely and have never persued it again. We decided to go with Reporting Services, not because it was free, besides it is ONLY free if you install the server components on the same box as your SQL Server 2k License. We paid the what..200 bucks?? It is cheap and very intuitive. Within one day I was able to understand some of the advanced capabilities of RS, including bar graphs, trending, and various properties including custom code.What I like most about RS is it is simple, there is not a lot there because most of the formatting work and the data retrieval is all done through your SQL box. You write a nice group by sql query and you simply fill a table to get some nice results. Another thing that people dont mention but it is always in the back of our minds is the fact that what you click or what you do is what you would expect the application to do. RS is designed like excel or word, you right click or click on something you expect some sort of menu or addition of headers or footers or group bys to appear, and in RS they do. In crystal I had a hard time understanding the layout of that interface.I like the graphing capabilities, and I love the available formats that the tool exports to (PDF, Excel, Web Components, etc). I also love the scheduling procedures it can handle. It creates jobs directly on your SQL box (where you installed the RS database) and these jobs automatically send reports to end users in the format you desire. You can even specifiy the parameter values that you would like the report to filter by in the scheduling routine.The documentation is not as nice as BOL, but it is still handy. We have a lot of great folks on this forum who are helpful as well.Anything I missed ?Thanks
Keeping the web experience alive -- [url]http://www.web-impulse.com[/url]Imperfection living for perfection -- [url]http://jhermiz.blogspot.com/[/url] |
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karuna
Aged Yak Warrior
582 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 09:03:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Kristen
"I need more details on it to present a review report for a client"Compare it to the alternatives?Kristen
No comparison with alternatives, a nuetral pros and cons. Cons, I see is relatively new technoglogy compared with other reporting tools.If large amount of reports and frequency of report request is more then might need a seperate box, which means a new sql license...I dont see much other than these... Anything I have missed?ThanksKarunakaran |
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jhermiz
3564 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 09:08:56
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Read what I just posted above...the cost of a sql server license to place rs on its own is well worth it.If you guys dont mind performance, and you have very little transactional work going on behind the scenes then go ahead and put it on the same box, it will be free. But remember that this is not the prefered solution.I've given you the pros, does your client want to employee crystal experts and pay for a lot of support. Trust me crystal is not something that simple that you can create advanced reports with in seconds. Sure you can create a simple detailed customer report, but the client hardly asks for a basic report. The pros are in the long run the client will save money by persuing RS. If their back end is MS why shouldn't their reporting be MS ? They'll stand by their product, in fact they are constantly working on patches and new releases for RS to make it more powerful. Just recently RS SP 2 was released which included client printing.Also check out www.microsoft.com/sql for more examples, as well as samples, and pros of the product.
Keeping the web experience alive -- [url]http://www.web-impulse.com[/url]Imperfection living for perfection -- [url]http://jhermiz.blogspot.com/[/url] |
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karuna
Aged Yak Warrior
582 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 09:35:58
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quote:
Originally posted by jhermiz
I've given you the pros, does your client want to employee crystal experts and pay for a lot of support. Trust me crystal is not something that simple that you can create advanced reports with in seconds. Sure you can create a simple detailed customer report, but the client hardly asks for a basic report.
Keeping the web experience alive -- [url]http://www.web-impulse.com[/url]Imperfection living for perfection -- [url]http://jhermiz.blogspot.com/[/url]
The client already have Crystal.They want to move out of it. So they are evaluvating other reporting options. I'm finding lot pros for RS, but not a nuetral cons for RS. Which is what I'm supposed to give them.ThanksKarunakaran |
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jhermiz
3564 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 09:42:11
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Huh??? You're finding pros but no cons...isn't that a good thing ? It's a rather new product, so you wont find too many people complaining because not many know what to expect. Just tell your client to give it a try, since it is free, have them install it on the box of your sql install, test it, love or hate it, then get rid of it or reinstall it on its own box.I'm not certain what you want us to give you here, do you want us to make up some cons just to make your list look good ? Read the comments that people have made, go to www.microsoft.com/sql, go search google, all the information is out there.
Keeping the web experience alive -- [url]http://www.web-impulse.com[/url]Imperfection living for perfection -- [url]http://jhermiz.blogspot.com/[/url] |
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jhermiz
3564 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 09:48:34
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Another pro: http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=56192Some cons to help you out:Does not allow multiple properties to change per object like crystal does. What I mean by this is different sizes, colors, font style for one particular text boxDoes not allow you to insert a newly created textbox object into an existing text box which already has content, otherwise it is overwrittenCustom code is limited, and no color coding is available so it makes it a bit more difficultLimited capabilities in some reporting types, meaning there is not as much there as crystal, but to me that is a dang feature!!!That is honestly all I can think of...
Keeping the web experience alive -- [url]http://www.web-impulse.com[/url]Imperfection living for perfection -- [url]http://jhermiz.blogspot.com/[/url] |
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karuna
Aged Yak Warrior
582 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 09:55:10
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quote:
Originally posted by jhermiz
Huh??? You're finding pros but no cons...isn't that a good thing ?
Yeah, thats good. Actually I'm using RS for my other project and I like it.quote:
It's a rather new product, so you wont find too many people complaining because not many know what to expect.
Thats true. Crystal has been there for years and people know about it.[quote]I'm not certain what you want us to give you here, do you want us to make up some cons just to make your list look good [/qoute]Certainly not. I like to have an opinion from people more experienced than me with RS. So that they know what is missing in RS which is in other reporting tools. Its a typical management issue.When I have listed down a long list of pros and couple of cons, people think either I dont know anything about RS or I'm advocating way too much for RS , which is partially true Thanks to all for all your comments.Karunakaran |
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robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 10:06:44
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quote:
The client already have Crystal. They want to move out of it. So they are evaluvating other reporting options.
Seems silly for them to insist on neutral arguments when they are already predisposed against Crystal. (probably some relative of the CEO recommended it and they dropped $100K+ on it and now they don't want to admit it was a waste)I would suggest looking at the problems they have with Crystal, then see how RS handles those issues. Accentuate the positive, like the song says. Let OTHER people find something wrong with RS, and/or something positive about Crystal.One other card to keep up your sleeve is the upcoming release of SQL Server 2005. If they're thinking of upgrading, then RS will be the only way to go. It will be significantly improved over the current 2000 version, and there's no way Crystal could compete unless they start giving away their software. |
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jhermiz
3564 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 10:08:11
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Well print this thread and tell them this is what you came up with.Like I said it's a good tool, there isn't a lot of cons because truly I haven't found too many things that I have had problems with. The interface works wonders, and I have not been stumped by a single management report. And our managers are very anal :).Jon
Keeping the web experience alive -- [url]http://www.web-impulse.com[/url]Imperfection living for perfection -- [url]http://jhermiz.blogspot.com/[/url] |
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Kristen
Test
22859 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 10:42:42
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| "After blowing hundreds and thousands of dollars ..."Interesting read, thanks Jon.Kristen |
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karuna
Aged Yak Warrior
582 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-18 : 11:42:06
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| Thanks Jon and Rob for the comments.ThanksKarunakaran |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-20 : 19:24:04
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| Karuna, Jon has already covered this CON, but let me give you an example where it mattered. Maybe that will help. The con is the inability of RS to format parts of large blocks of text differently. So, for example, I had a client that was using Crystal to produce their form letters. Within the text of the letter, they wanted some words bolded, some italic, most plain, and a few fields dropped in. In Crystal this was relatively easy because you can easily place fields inside a text box, and you can format each character individually. In reporting services, you can put the fields in there, albeit a little more awkwardly, but you cannot do the distinct formatting. So RS absolutely would not work for that client at the present time.However, for my current work, we don't have that as a critical need, and RS is working GREAT!---------------------------EmeraldCityDomains.com |
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tkizer
Almighty SQL Goddess
38200 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-20 : 19:37:44
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| Mark, I don't understand the problem that you are having with formatting. We have reports that use several different formats. We are using IIF statements in the formatting options to change the effects for certain characters or words within the same field.Tara |
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karuna
Aged Yak Warrior
582 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-20 : 23:25:43
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| Thanks Mark and Tara.Mark, I havent tried with individual character formatting, but in some of the reports we do have an entire word formatted with bold / italic kind of stuffs.ThanksKarunakaran |
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jhermiz
3564 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-21 : 05:50:25
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If that is the case, you can either use individual text boxes, or use IIF, but it can be painful creating a lot of iif statements for individual words let alone characters.
Keeping the web experience alive -- [url]http://www.web-impulse.com[/url]Imperfection living for perfection -- [url]http://jhermiz.blogspot.com/[/url] |
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AjarnMark
SQL Slashing Gunting Master
3246 Posts |
Posted - 2005-10-21 : 12:21:00
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OK, wiseguys, where were you when I posted this question two months ago?Just to be sure we're talking the same thing, let's take the text of my post from before, and format it. Some of you who say you've done this, feed me an expression or whatever your technique is to accomplish this:quote:
Originally posted by AjarnMark
<Field: FirstName>, Jon has already covered this CON, but let me give you an example where it mattered. Maybe that will help. The con is the inability of RS to format parts of large blocks of text differently. So, for example, I had a client that was using <Field: CompetitorProduct> to produce their form letters. Within the text of the letter, they wanted some words bolded, some italic, most plain, and a few fields dropped in. In <Field: CompetitorProduct> this was relatively easy because you can easily place fields inside a text box, and you can format each character individually. In reporting services, you can put the fields in there, albeit a little more awkwardly, but you cannot do the distinct formatting. So RS absolutely would not work for that client at the present time.
Give me a viable solution, and I'll buy you a  when you come to PASS here in Seattle next year.---------------------------EmeraldCityDomains.com |
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Pros & Cons Of Reporting Services....