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graz
Chief SQLTeam Crack Dealer
4149 Posts |
 Posted - 2003-07-27 : 11:11:03
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| In the past people have suggested ideas for new forums -- especially a design forum. Now that I've upgraded the forums I'm interested in adding more forums or switching around the ones we have. Any thoughts or ideas?===============================================Creating tomorrow's legacy systems today.One crisis at a time. |
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SamC
White Water Yakist
3467 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-27 : 15:42:37
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.NET  Sam |
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Stoad
Freaky Yak Linguist
1983 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-27 : 17:53:23
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| In my opinion the most attractive feature of this site is its totaldedicating to SQL Server only (and MS Access which is a 'sacred cow').So, no any .NETs. As to Design Forum, I think that it will be a prettytough job to discuss the Design stuff in the forum mode.PS A minute ago I was turned back by the flood control...A bit inconvenient...- Vit |
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robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-27 : 18:45:29
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| I have to agree with Stoad. While there are a lot of SQL Teamers who are using .Net, there are even more forums out there for them. Literally. There is such a glut of .Net related web sites and groups that it's impossible for a new one here to really be of any benefit. Nothing personal, but if you can't get help from the .Net sites out there now, then what you want to do is impossible in .Net.The only way a .Net forum would be useful is for when Yukon is released, which is not scheduled until late 2004. Even then it will be near impossible for the discussion to remain focused on SQL Server and .Net, as everyone will want general .Net programming information as well. |
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graz
Chief SQLTeam Crack Dealer
4149 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-27 : 20:01:12
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quote:
Originally posted by StoadPS A minute ago I was turned back by the flood control...A bit inconvenient...- Vit
And flood control is turned off for now.===============================================Creating tomorrow's legacy systems today.One crisis at a time. |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 06:21:27
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Stick to sql server - it's what makes this site different.(Should dts be here - it's just a client app that happens to be included with sql server - like enterprise manager )Must have been overholidaying - the site looks different.Be nice to have something on ansii standards but don't know how active it would be.==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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Amethystium
Aged Yak Warrior
701 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 07:47:57
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(Should dts be here - it's just a client app that happens to be included with sql server - like enterprise manager)
I disagree nr.DTS is a useful set of tools that saves you time. Using bcp or the BULK INSERT command takes too long. Anyway, I think Microsoft rushed the BULK INSERT command as it is very annoying to use at times and the documentation is very limited.quote:
Must have been overholidaying - the site looks different.
Funny you say that. I noticed the difference this morning too. The weirdest change or addition is the average post count. This is something I was going to suggest on the forum only a week ago. In fact I worked out that X08blah (you know the guy) was averaging over 7 posts a day along with robvolk who averaged almost the same. Anyway, the site is running a lot faster now which is a good thing....and that's my helpful contribution to this site today  P.S.Nice site nr, but the design is awful! Your HTML skills aren't as good as your SQL obviously.---------------Shadow to Light |
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robvolk
Most Valuable Yak
15732 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 08:06:43
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quote:
Anyway, I think Microsoft rushed the BULK INSERT command as it is very annoying to use at times and the documentation is very limited.
Only if you don't read Books Online.DTS is great if you are NOT importing or exporting text files. bcp blows the doors off of DTS performance-wise. It is also very very easy to do things like import all of the files in a directory:http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24371And there are even simpler ways of doing the same thing with bcp. There's no way DTS could be programmed to do that with 12 lines of code.BULK INSERT and bcp do not take longer to use than DTS. You spent far more time learning DTS, you just may not realize it. Once you learn bcp/BULK INSERT, you'll never use DTS for text files. |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 08:11:14
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Dts is a client app - like any VB app you write.I think it is very good but often used inapropriately. A lot of systems end up with vast numbers of dts packages doing very similar things because the developers want to load a package and then let it control the processing (like a client app) rather than use an SP to load the package to do the external interface stuff then use sql to do the internal stuff.I've even seen packages that just call a series of SPs (often justified by "I had to use dts because it needed to be scheduled"!).Bulk insert and bcp are good tools as well - and a lot simpler (and faster) than dts - but if you are doing an import/export go with what you know best, experience is the main thing.i try to convince people that just because they see a series of tasks or an import/export it doesn't mean that it has to be all dts.>> Nice site nr, but the design is awful! Your HTML skills aren't as good as your SQL obviously.The design is sort of a comment that database stuff should be kept separate from presentation. I don't have the time or inclination to do pretty things - technical skills (even html) far outstrip artistic ability.==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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Amethystium
Aged Yak Warrior
701 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 08:31:47
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Ouch! I knew I would get ripped for daring to insult the BULK INSERT command. I have no problem with the command itself but rather the preparations you have to make to use it. I know this sounds stupid but with DTS, no matter what format you just select the file type and bingo! you're ready to go.quote:
DTS is great if you are NOT importing or exporting text files.
It seems that 90% of our source data comes in an Excel format. I guess it depends on the kind of organisation you work for and the data they store. I always use to play around with DTS because for some reason it was looked upon as a good thing.quote:
It is also very very easy to do things like import all of the files in a directory:
Thanks for the link... I have a set of .CSV files which I am loading using BULK INSERT but your little script is pretty neat for doing the whole set.quote:
Bulk insert and bcp are good tools as well - and a lot simpler (and faster) than dts - but if you are doing an import/export go with what you know best, experience is the main thing.
You would have banned me from this site for corrupt SQL advice if you saw my list of DTS packages last month. I had so much garbage in there...But now I am a lot wiser when it comes to importing/exporting data. Learning more and more every day.quote:
The design is sort of a comment that database stuff should be kept separate from presentation. I don't have the time or inclination to do pretty things - technical skills (even html) far outstrip artistic ability.
 .... you mean grey and boring. That sums up being a database developer. At least with SQL Server you get a bit of colour here 'n' there.Should have become a Java developer instead... I knew it.P.S.Just wondering, why can't you subscribe to the entire Developer section of the forum. This feature seems available on other sections but not this one. ---------------Shadow to Light |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 09:30:35
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| Yep - bcp is not as flexible as dts. If I have a lot of files to import I will do it into a single column staging table and then split the data up from there - maybe using a file definition table so there is no code to write for a new format. But doesn't matter as the import is always a separate task so could be dts package.>> It seems that 90% of our source data comes in an Excel format.Yep - DTS - or have you tried openrowset using the jet provider (for fun).>> But now I am a lot wiser when it comes to importing/exporting data. Learning more and more every day.Good stuff - if things are getting complicated you're probably doing something wrong.>> you mean grey and boring. That sums up being a database developer.Nope. Content over presentation. What at first sight looks grey and boring becomes more exciting as you gain knowledge and understanding (o.k. I'm talking about database development not my site).Maybe I should change the colour to a nice lime green?==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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X002548
Not Just a Number
15586 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 09:32:02
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quote:
DTS is great if you are NOT importing or exporting text files. bcp blows the doors off of DTS performance-wise.
I would even go as far to say the req should be that data should created as some delimted file or fixed width before entry into your system.And bcp or bulk insert only.For example, you've got an access db you want to convert.OK, you've got the tools in acces to create either. Do it.Then bcp the data.MOOPS...is this nirvana or WHAT...No 30 second page loads?YOO-HOO!Brett8-) |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 09:41:07
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| Depends if you are in control of the data.If someone updates an excel spreadsheet every day by 3 a.m. and it has to imported by 5 a.m. then there's not a lot you can do.(That happens to me at the moment - and yes it's imported using dts).==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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Amethystium
Aged Yak Warrior
701 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 10:01:44
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Complete re-design of your site + Web development tuition for 50 quid Nigel.Let me know when you're free!  ---------------Shadow to Light |
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graz
Chief SQLTeam Crack Dealer
4149 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 10:09:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Amethystium
Just wondering, why can't you subscribe to the entire Developer section of the forum. This feature seems available on other sections but not this one.
The only forums that allow forum-wide subscription are low traffic forums. I'm kind of worried about the volume of email that would be sent out if people subscribed to the developer forum. All those emails are sent during the message posting process. Also I'm not sure why you'd want the 50 emails/day it would generate. ===============================================Creating tomorrow's legacy systems today.One crisis at a time. |
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X002548
Not Just a Number
15586 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 10:26:34
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| Hey, the corral alone......Brett8-) |
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Tim
Starting Member
392 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 20:26:25
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quote:
Dts is a client app - like any VB app you write.
Yeah but my client apps never got their own sp's in msdb !One of the problems with all the other .net forums is it's hard to get an answer that is useful, from someone who knows what they are talking about. A .net forum here would raise the chance a lot I think, and we generally like to help each other out. It wouldn't do any harm... just tucked away in a corner somewhere... |
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JustinBigelow
SQL Gigolo
1157 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 20:54:22
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I'd tend to say no on a .NET forum but if it was there it would give us a chance to hold an intervention for all the Identity users out there. I've been looking through the MS Patterns and Practices stuff and there is alot of Identity use, .NET Magazine too. bah  Justin"Look at it out there orbiting like it's so cool, we will rule it with an army of replicants!" |
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nr
SQLTeam MVY
12543 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-28 : 23:45:44
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| How about a identity/natural key forum which is user configurable to never be seen?==========================================Cursors are useful if you don't know sql.DTS can be used in a similar way.Beer is not cold and it isn't fizzy. |
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eyechart
Master Smack Fu Yak Hacker
3575 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-29 : 00:43:50
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| I say add a .NET forum. .NET support is a much talked about new feature of Yukon. We will all have to have some exposure to .NET at some point (if we plan on moving forward). I would rather have it here, with a database perspective thrown in, then some other site.-ec |
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smccreadie
Aged Yak Warrior
505 Posts |
Posted - 2003-07-29 : 14:52:48
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| I think there is some value to adding .Net - especially as it relates to database access in SQL. True, there are a lot of sights out there but they all seem to be a lot of guessing. One of the best things I loke about sqlteam is the quality of the responses. Perhaps that same quality would flow to a .Net forum. |
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